S650 steering and handling is night and day difference compared to S550 Mustang says Chief Engineer Ed Krenz

[ShadesOfBloo]

Sorry but I don´t understanf how it is supossed to be an improvement a steering wheel with a bigger circunference and a higher steering gear ratio lol... It could be if the car were a truck, but not for a sporty car

Am I misunderstanding anything?

Hopefully he meant a quicker steering ratio, though if we were describing it in numbers a smaller number gets you a faster steering.

I could swear my S550 has a slower ratio than my 1980 station wagon with fully manual steering.

A couple of years from now I might be asking "Do the S650 steering parts fit my 2020 car?"
If not I would "settle" for Mach 1 HP parts.

Sponsored

 

[Dragster]

The info on steering sounds good, but I'm a little apprehensive about the changes to brake feel. I liked the brake feel on my S550 a lot, so hopefully it's at least similar.

 

[thompsje]

So the rack/steering shaft change is just something they could have fixed in the base S550 but decided not to. I doubt the racks will be swappable since somebody told me you can't do that across GT to GT350 because of the EPAS calibration.

And now it's a fatter, flat bottom bus wheel. Great 'engineering' choice there.

 

[Murfstang]

So the rack/steering shaft change is just something they could have fixed in the base S550 but decided not to. I doubt the racks will be swappable since somebody told me you can't do that across GT to GT350 because of the EPAS calibration.

And now it's a fatter, flat bottom bus wheel. Great 'engineering' choice there.

Bus wheel? What are you taking about?

 

[thompsje]

Bus wheel? What are you taking about?

It may not bother you, but IMO the stock wheel in a Mustang is at least an inch bigger than it needs to be, maybe more. Shrink that down and the perception of 'sportiness' helps you overlook the other shortcomings.

 

[Red65]

Hopefully he meant a quicker steering ratio, though if we were describing it in numbers a smaller number gets you a faster steering.

I could swear my S550 has a slower ratio than my 1980 station wagon with fully manual steering.

A couple of years from now I might be asking "Do the S650 steering parts fit my 2020 car?"
If not I would "settle" for Mach 1 HP parts.

The info we have right now says that the new steering rack is a 15:1 ratio, from the 19:1 ratio in the S550. Theoretically this is going to put some road feel back into the wheel and make the car feel more nimble. The 19:1 rack ratio and electronic power steering in the S550 did a lot to numb the steering feel, which ended up being one of the most unanimous dislikes of the car when compared to others like the Camaro. Coming from cars like my 65 Mustang which has a Mustang II front end with a non-dampened U joint steering shaft and 16:1 ratio steering rack, I would have to agree the S550 steering feels pretty awful.

 

[Cory S]

My S550 steering is phenomenal. I'll NEVER need more. Period. Moot feature.

 

[OppoLock]

Improving handling compared to the S550 is not exactly rocket science. Magneride did significantly mask its shortcomings, but the car requires half the Steeda catalog to make it drive well.

Even the PP2 had jank steering with the same non-Shelby characteristics; the weirdest combination of being simultaneously gummy and wooden with unnatural resistance that didn’t match front tire load nor line up with the amount of lock dialed in. There must have been fundamental changes made to the steering geometry and/or electric motors for the steering rack that created such a big difference in the Shelby models.

“Then you walk down the steering column, and the current model has a joint in there that’s there for vibration. We removed that from the S650 product. Then we increased the steering gear ratio as well as upgraded the overall steering rack capacity…”—whatever that is, if that, in combo with different spring and damper rates (since the roll bars and everything else seem identical on spec sheets) might make a difference. Plus, we have no idea how much stiffer the S650’s chassis is. It could be the same, or they might have improved material usage and spot welding techniques. Guess we’ll find out

The info we have right now says that the new steering rack is a 15:1 ratio, from the 19:1 ratio in the S550. Theoretically this is going to put some road feel back into the wheel and make the car feel more nimble. The 19:1 rack ratio and electronic power steering in the S550 did a lot to numb the steering feel, which ended up being one of the most unanimous dislikes of the car when compared to others like the Camaro. Coming from cars like my 65 Mustang which has a Mustang II front end with a non-dampened U joint steering shaft and 16:1 ratio steering rack, I would have to agree the S550 steering feels pretty awful.

I thought all S550s had a 16:1 rack ratio. Which is still unforgivably slow.

My S550 steering is phenomenal. I'll NEVER need more. Period. Moot feature.

I think it was the number one thing that annoyed me in my car on a daily, maybe more than the MT82 and disconnected feeling chassis lol.

 

[spectremotorsports]

It may not bother you, but IMO the stock wheel in a Mustang is at least an inch bigger than it needs to be, maybe more. Shrink that down and the perception of 'sportiness' helps you overlook the other shortcomings.

I keep seeing mention of the Mustang steering wheel being "too big" in diameter. For reference:

Mustang: 14.5" or 368mm

Porsche 911: 14.7" or 375mm or 14.1" and 360mm with optional wheel

Jaguar F type: 14.5" or 368mm

Camaro Zl1: 14.475" or 367mm

I know as guys we tend to overestimate how "big" something is. But the numbers show otherwise, it's the same, or even smaller in the case of the base 911 wheel.

 

[OppoLock]

I keep seeing mention of the Mustang steering wheel being "too big" in diameter. For reference:

Mustang: 14.5" or 368mm

Porsche 911: 14.7" or 375mm or 14.1" and 360mm with optional wheel

Jaguar F type: 14.5" or 368mm

Camaro Zl1: 14.475" or 367mm

I know as guys we tend to overestimate how "big" something is. But the numbers show otherwise, it's the same, or even smaller in the case of the base 911 wheel.

Most steering wheels are in the 14-15” range. The hulking monsters you find in things like Expeditions are only 15.5”, so that half inch makes a big difference. But even more of a difference…

…is the girth.

Ok but serious, steering wheels that are considered small are things like the M-sport wheels in BMWs. They’re maybe 14.5” or a fraction less. But they’re thick—arguably too much so—and it makes them feel comparatively smaller.

The S550’s suffered because it was too thin. Also the protrusions behind the 9 and 3 are ergonomic nightmares making it one of the worst wheels ina performance car imo.

 

[young at heart]

I guess it’s my fault for clicking on this thread, but up till now I thought mine steered and handled just great.

 

[EFI]

I guess it’s my fault for clicking on this thread, but up till now I thought mine steered and handled just great.

They have to come up with some "improvements" that the marketing folk can spin up in their jargon to fill up all the fancy brochures.

 

[Murfstang]

It may not bother you, but IMO the stock wheel in a Mustang is at least an inch bigger than it needs to be, maybe more. Shrink that down and the perception of 'sportiness' helps you overlook the other shortcomings.

I agree that that S550 steering wheel feels way to big, but also way too thin, which accentuates the overall size of it. I test drove a couple before getting my GTI and I can tell you that the steering wheel in my Explorer ST is 100% better than what is in the S550 and should have been used in the S550 for the last 3 years. I believe with the flat bottom and increase in cross sectional size the S650 while look and feel much smaller in overall size than the S550 and will be a vast improvement.

 

[Hack]

SNIP

“Then you walk down the steering column, and the current model has a joint in there that’s there for vibration. We removed that from the S650 product. Then we increased the steering gear ratio as well as upgraded the overall steering rack capacity. So it makes a much quicker, nimble feeling car to drive.” Krenz explained.

“In terms of suspension, they did the high-end MagneRide dampers, which have the next-generation control system that we’ve evolved with some learnings from Raptor programs,” said Krenz. “The base car has a new supplier of tube shocks… The breaking system; we migrated to electronic brake boost … so you can tune the brake pedal response, and there was a lot of effort into getting what a standard Ford electronic brake pedal feel might be on something like an Explorer and bringing that into what we think a performance car or sports car needs to feel like.”

“We also went to electronic park brake from mechanical park brake for this product, again by wire. That enabled us to do a couple of cool things, including the ultimate evolution of the Drift Brake. Which is, sort of, next-level unexpected.”

Ok I do like the larger cross section steering wheel. And I like the quicker turning. That definitely makes a car feel more sporty.

But electronic brake boost is scary to me. Keep your electronics away from my brakes. I'll bet they saved money with this change. Who knows, maybe it gives a great feel to the brakes, but typically in the past cars with electronic brake boosters have gotten poor driving reviews.

And saying YOU (implying the user) can tune the the brake pedal response? I guess that means that if you pay enough money you will have braking modes available. If they can make the brakes feel like those on the GT350, I'm at least interested. But I don't know - it's probably too much money.

Electronic parking brake - another thing to go wrong. Let's take a dead simple mechanical system and make it complex. Great.

The info on steering sounds good, but I'm a little apprehensive about the changes to brake feel. I liked the brake feel on my S550 a lot, so hopefully it's at least similar.

I agree Mustang brakes are pretty good in general compared to most cars I've driven. And GT350 brakes are completely awesome. It might be difficult to improve the feel.

The info we have right now says that the new steering rack is a 15:1 ratio, from the 19:1 ratio in the S550. Theoretically this is going to put some road feel back into the wheel and make the car feel more nimble. The 19:1 rack ratio and electronic power steering in the S550 did a lot to numb the steering feel, which ended up being one of the most unanimous dislikes of the car when compared to others like the Camaro. Coming from cars like my 65 Mustang which has a Mustang II front end with a non-dampened U joint steering shaft and 16:1 ratio steering rack, I would have to agree the S550 steering feels pretty awful.

I would think that faster steering with a more powerful rack would give LESS road feel. The reason why is your hands move less and the wheels turn more, so there has to be more assist given. You'd have better feel with slower steering, but then the car would be less sporty.

 

[Evo1986]

So what does this lead us to? Exactly, wait and see

Sponsored