Mustang Chief Engineer Confirms Locked ECU, making S650 tune more difficult

[Angrey]

I can't answer that question. It's a good question, but I just don't know. My guess would be that there hasn't been enough time/money spent on trying to crack it, combined with the fact that the GT500 was only sold in the North American market. So it likely wasn't/isn't worth the time and effort to unlock the GT500's DCT.

Virtually all the movers and shakers in the Mustang aftermarket tuning and racing industry have pursued it. My point is, just because something can be hacked or broken, doesn't mean it will be. Plenty of interested parties on the part of the GT500/DCT.

The good news is, I suspect that we'll see an uptick of offerings from aftermarket/standalone systems and more competitors to MOTEC (who's the only one I'm aware of that caters to those wanting a standalone but not for a gutted race car, but to keep the operable features of the car).

You can run fueltech or halltech, etc, but then the final product looks like a trailer queen dedicated race car.

I suspect there will be more efforts to improve and ultimately more success in offering a standalone option that works and doesn't cost nearly 5 digits.

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[9secondko]

Why would the mods have to get involved? There’s no argument here just a discussion.

plus it is relevant to the topic.

 

[AvalancheSVT]

My point is, just because something can be hacked or broken, doesn't mean it will be.

LMAO ford guaranteed that when they declared it couldn't be.

welcome to the internet.

 

[9secondko]

The S650 ECU situation is different than the gt500 DCT as that is one transmission (which seems pretty well suited to handle the engine mods) on one limited selling version of the mustang. If you have the same software lock on GT/dark horse, etc., not only does it make much more sense to invest in cracking it, but modding engines is much more popular than modding transmissions. The effort will go into the ecu.

the most popular car in the world to mod wil have the effort invested.

 

[K4fxd]

SCOTUS has been wrecking the alphabet agencies' shop

Some or all of the aftermarket manufacturers along with us common folk need to challenge the EPA and it's draconian rules in court. If we do this the SCOTUS can apply it's logic to other areas, not just power plants.

Guys, can we please take this part of the conversation off line before the mods have to get involved?

Sir, after reading your posts for sometime now you only want things you disagree with removed or censored. Not cool.

 

[Bikeman315]

Some or all of the aftermarket manufacturers along with us common folk need to challenge the EPA and it's draconian rules in court. If we do this the SCOTUS can apply it's logic to other areas, not just power plants.

Sir, after reading your posts for sometime now you only want things you disagree with removed or censored. Not cool.

Honestly Dan, I could care less. But have you noticed that the mods have become more active recently. Just do not want good threads messed with or deleted.

 

[9secondko]

Honestly Dan, I could care less. But have you noticed that the mods have become more active recently. Just do not want good threads messed with or deleted.

Some or all of the aftermarket manufacturers along with us common folk need to challenge the EPA and it's draconian rules in court. If we do this the SCOTUS can apply it's logic to other areas, not just power plants.

Sir, after reading your posts for sometime now you only want things you disagree with removed or censored. Not cool.

locked ECUs are no fun.
Would be great if there were a common ground with all 50 states and certified mod/tuning companies. Something to where an afterburner mod was sold alongside mods that may cause pollution. I’m no tree hugger, but I appreciate clean air. Been in L. A. For a year and it’s a problem here.

would be great if some Elon musk type entrepreneur developed a system to actively burn/capture enough exhaust elements to putthings in line with authority standards. While you’re adding to your car, add this… and the DMV ETC can verify at a quick check, maybe at a star smog station and boom, everybody is happy - except the politicians with control freak issues. Nothing can be done about that.

more power, no problem - the kit is certified and satisfies emission requirements.

my dad is a semi truck owner operator and had to basically do this to keep an older truck in service. Works great.

 

[K4fxd]

my dad is a semi truck owner operator and had to basically do this to keep an older truck in service. Works great.

My Son is an Engine design engineer at Cummins. The EPA has crippled the Diesel engines. They still can't get EGR to work without killing fuel mileage or corrupting drivability.

 

[Angrey]

The S650 ECU situation is different than the gt500 DCT as that is one transmission (which seems pretty well suited to handle the engine mods) on one limited selling version of the mustang. If you have the same software lock on GT/dark horse, etc., not only does it make much more sense to invest in cracking it, but modding engines is much more popular than modding transmissions. The effort will go into the ecu.

the most popular car in the world to mod wil have the effort invested.

Who are you thinking that will attend this hack party that isn't already at the DCT party?

All the major tuners have tried (and failed) to tune the DCT. All of them. First thing you have to understand is that the first overlapping venn section is that there's a unique/specialization aspect here where those involved in automotive tuning knowledge and that swim in those circles will be the ones who are both suited to try to figure it out and interested.

There may be some brilliant computer scientists out there, but how many of them use SCT or HP Tuners? How many of them understand the Ford computer platform and the intricate knowledge of how Ford tuning files are structured, employed, etc. Then ask yourself how many of those who aren't already into tuning will be interested in pursuing cracking the encryption?

You could probably go over to SCT or HP Tuners forums and find everyone who is capable and willing to pursue unlocking the PCM and those are all the same players that have been involved with trying to tune the GT500.

Your point about how common the Mustang GT is cuts both ways. What's more likely to see a highly modified/custom tune? A GT500 or a Mustang GT? There are many more sales of GT500's, but when it comes to tuning needs, for EXTREME reasons, I'm venturing that the attention the GT500 sees is formidable.

The point is, many have tried. Many of the movers and shakers in the mustang community have tried. NO ONE has been able to disable the factory nanny features and it is definitely a problem on the GT500's with torque protection at launch.

Someone may indeed hack the S650 PCM. But my point is valid and stands. If it's SO EASY, then it would have been done by now on the DCT portions of the GT500 tune. It remains out of reach.

It's certainly NOT an encouraging fact when we're all speculating about whether it will be open to tune.

As I stated earlier, all is not lost. I happen to believe that if the PCM remains locked, we'd NORMALLY see a much better product offering from the aftermarket standalones. The question is whether or not the EPA thugs will have scared all the companies in the industry and whether they'll risk getting flagged by the EPA. Ask yourself why there's never been another replacement for the Nguage (and why they stopped making them in the first place) when they're so popular? The EPA.

 

[Rael]

Who are you thinking that will attend this hack party that isn't already at the DCT party?

All the major tuners have tried (and failed) to tune the DCT. All of them. First thing you have to understand is that the first overlapping venn section is that there's a unique/specialization aspect here where those involved in automotive tuning knowledge and that swim in those circles will be the ones who are both suited to try to figure it out and interested.

There may be some brilliant computer scientists out there, but how many of them use SCT or HP Tuners? How many of them understand the Ford computer platform and the intricate knowledge of how Ford tuning files are structured, employed, etc. Then ask yourself how many of those who aren't already into tuning will be interested in pursuing cracking the encryption?

Seven.

 

[9secondko]

Who are you thinking that will attend this hack party that isn't already at the DCT party?

All the major tuners have tried (and failed) to tune the DCT. All of them. First thing you have to understand is that the first overlapping venn section is that there's a unique/specialization aspect here where those involved in automotive tuning knowledge and that swim in those circles will be the ones who are both suited to try to figure it out and interested.

There may be some brilliant computer scientists out there, but how many of them use SCT or HP Tuners? How many of them understand the Ford computer platform and the intricate knowledge of how Ford tuning files are structured, employed, etc. Then ask yourself how many of those who aren't already into tuning will be interested in pursuing cracking the encryption?

You could probably go over to SCT or HP Tuners forums and find everyone who is capable and willing to pursue unlocking the PCM and those are all the same players that have been involved with trying to tune the GT500.

Your point about how common the Mustang GT is cuts both ways. What's more likely to see a highly modified/custom tune? A GT500 or a Mustang GT? There are many more sales of GT500's, but when it comes to tuning needs, for EXTREME reasons, I'm venturing that the attention the GT500 sees is formidable.

The point is, many have tried. Many of the movers and shakers in the mustang community have tried. NO ONE has been able to disable the factory nanny features and it is definitely a problem on the GT500's with torque protection at launch.

Someone may indeed hack the S650 PCM. But my point is valid and stands. If it's SO EASY, then it would have been done by now on the DCT portions of the GT500 tune. It remains out of reach.

It's certainly NOT an encouraging fact when we're all speculating about whether it will be open to tune.

As I stated earlier, all is not lost. I happen to believe that if the PCM remains locked, we'd NORMALLY see a much better product offering from the aftermarket standalones. The question is whether or not the EPA thugs will have scared all the companies in the industry and whether they'll risk getting flagged by the EPA. Ask yourself why there's never been another replacement for the Nguage (and why they stopped making them in the first place) when they're so popular? The EPA.

take the sample size of GT500 DCTs that are in customer hands. Now extract from that a number that will actually mod their DCT. It’s TINY.

Now take the sample size of all the v8s in a mustang generation and extract a set of those who will mod their engines. Absolutely MASSIVE numbers.

Economy of scale is simple math.

The DCTs sold and the potential modding customers don’t justify a huge investment yet. The engine on the other hand is a booming business - so much so that you have multiple companies engineering for it and making healthy profit.

the ECU will be attacked like flies on… well you know. Too much money and enthusiasm on the table.

 

[Rapid Red]

And what other car will you buy instead? The EV Charger/Challenger? I'm assuming you're against EVs. The extinct (for 2024) Camaro? A $90,000 C8? A Stinger GT? What options do you have?

You do tho that ALL future cars will have locked ECUs right?

I'm happy with what I have all 5 of them & no payments to be clear. You do realize there is always a back door?

None of those cars you tout would I even consider .....EVs LMAO ..... maybe down the road and I mean WAY down the road, the vehicle will be useful as for now, a foolish purchase at best.

 

[4V Mayhem]

I'm happy with what I have all 5 of them & no payments to be clear. You do realize there is always a back door?

None of those cars you tout would I even consider .....EVs LMAO ..... maybe down the road and I mean WAY down the road, the vehicle will be useful as for now, a foolish purchase at best.

Good for you then. But I wasn't asking about older cars that you already own. I'm asking what is the alternative to buy since you obviously won't be buying another new Mustang ever again. A Civic? People keep saying how they're not going to buy this or that if it has this or that feature or whatever. But then ok, so what else will you buy? Because guess what. The Mustang isn't the only car with a locked ECU. But it is one of the few remaining cars with RWD and a V8 engine. But you made it obviously clear that you have no intention of ever getting one. So if you want a V8 RWD then you can choose a C8 which also has a locked ECU, one of the BMWs out there that also has a locked ECU, a Charger or Challenger which also has locked ECUs. Or one of the other choices that all also have locked ECUs.

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