Carl Widmann, former Mustang chief engineer, hints at the future of the coyote

[IceGamer]

https://www.autoweek.com/news/sports-cars/a36353066/mustang-v8-is-safe-for-now/

Autoweek talked to Carl Widmann who's a Ford Performance chief program engineer. Widmann thinks that gas engines haven't met their day yet and that there are still a lot of people buying gas engines. He's referring to V8's and the 2.3L Ecoboost.

Ultimately he’s not giving away any „real” information regarding the S650 but considering the fact that the S650 is almost around the corner and the performance department is most likely working on Shelby/performance models I don’t think there are many other cars he could refer to. Maybe it’s just whishful thinking but I read “2.3L Ecoboost and V8’s are definitely coming to the S650” between the lines



Besides, I hope the Mach 1 will be the benchmark for the regular S650 GT as was the 2014 BOSS for the 2015 GT.

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[Twin Turbo]

I, too, hope the Mach 1 is the benchmark for the standard S650 GT. You're right in that the '14 Boss 302 was the benchmark for the '15 GT, and before that the '08/'09 Bullitt was the benchmark for the '10 GT.

Whilst I'd be content with the Mach 1's engine configuration being the base S650 GT, wouldn't it be cool if they aimed for 500hp from the Coyote? But I'm getting ahead of myself.........in reality, I'd be content for almost any V8 to be available outside the US.

 

[Ace]

My guess is that the former S550 engine options V6 -> Ecoboost -> V8 could be changed as follows:
Base model: 4Cyl Ecoboost
Mid model: V8 (maybe on par with current GT)
Highend model: V6-Hybrid or V8-Hybrid (around 500HP with AWD launch)

This would imho the only chance to still be able to offer the highend model in international regions but still offer the V8 for enthuasiasts in NA. I guess with the Mach 1 Ford is looking carefully what price customers would be willing to pay for a Mustang, since an Hybrid model should be more expansive than the current S550 GT

 

[Twin Turbo]

I think you're right Steve. Personally, I'm hoping for the V8 to be available in two options, as you've indicated. A pure N/A version that would be the main GT in the US, and possibly Europe for a few years......and then a V8 with hybrid assist, as that's definitely the only way we'll have a V8 in Europe by 2026.

The V6-hybrid is the most likely option though, as this has already been seen in the F150, Explorer and Aviator, so Mustang would have to swallow all the V8-hybrid costs. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed they go with the V8-hybrid though!

 

[IceGamer]

I think you're right Steve. Personally, I'm hoping for the V8 to be available in two options, as you've indicated. A pure N/A version that would be the main GT in the US, and possibly Europe for a few years......and then a V8 with hybrid assist, as that's definitely the only way we'll have a V8 in Europe by 2026.

The V6-hybrid is the most likely option though, as this has already been seen in the F150, Explorer and Aviator, so Mustang would have to swallow all the V8-hybrid costs. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed they go with the V8-hybrid though!

Die Hoffnung stirbt zuletzt!

The first S650 will hit Europe in 2023 the earliest. With further delays the S650 might enter Europe as a ’24 model and by then I doubt a V8 hybrid will be an option. Up until now FORD does not offer such an engine so the Mustang would have to carry all the development cost. The F150 Raptor R will most likely get the GT500 engine without a hybrid setup so I doubt there are many options left for “synergy effects”.

Besides, back in 2019 Raj Nair let it slip that the internal combustion part of such a hybrid powertrain would be an EcoBoost-type engine. In addition, the patent was supposed to work with CD6 and I think it’s almost common knowledge by now that that plan was canceled and eventually so was the V8 hybrid .



Therefore my guesses:

4 cyl ecoboost ~300 hp

4 cyl hybrid ~ 400hp AWD

NA V8 ~480hp

6 cyl hybrid ~550-600hp AWD



Ford has several 6 cylinder options and a turbo 6 cyl could make 650hp on its own. However, if they use the F150 hybrid setup (3.5L V6 ~390hp + ~35hp hybrid) and give it a tune they could easily end up above 500hp. Remember the new C63 will have a 4cyl (~420hp) with an additional ~200hp hybrid setup. I don’t want to advertise the pathetic “C63 4cyl” but considering the fact that Ford is “all in” on electrification I assume they could build a similar powerful hybrid. Having measly 20-30hp over a V8 is not really a selling argument ;)




An honorable mention:

Ford could save money by just keep selling the Ecoboost and the V8 in the states and offer a “special” hybrid version for the rest of the world by simply slamming the 3.5L Hybrid from the F150 into the Stang. If the V6 hybrid is the only available option customers might buy it regardless the lesser power output.

 

[Ace]

I also think the V6 hybrid is the most likely option for the Mustang. They already have it, they already homologated it for Europe in the Explorer and with certain tweaks it should be able to have more power than the current Coyote. But I personally still hope they will make a V8 hybrid since having a V8 is just an iconic part of the car for many people.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

The hybrid/AWD combination is what will likely get me to strongly consider getting S650 after I pay off my EcoBoost in full. Especially if it comes with an NA V8, although I'd be fine with an NA V6 or NA I4 as well. That said, if it becomes more expensive than a fully-loaded GT Premium...that's a lot of money I need to save up for before 2025.

 

[showbbq]

I'd love a hybrid v8. I imagine the starting price to be over 60k though.

 

[MikeyV]

I don't get why the world on fixated on the number of cylinders when it comes to "killing the V8".

Ford makes a 3.5, 3.0. 2.7L V6s. Make a 3.5L V8, makes a 2.7L V8. I don't care, long as it's got eight pots.

Displacement is want we're talking about, just make a smaller V8.

I still think a 3.5-4L V8 ecoBoost would be the perfect engine for F150s and F250s. Various Tunes.

 

[IceGamer]

I don't get why the world on fixated on the number of cylinders when it comes to "killing the V8".

Ford makes a 3.5, 3.0. 2.7L V6s. Make a 3.5L V8, makes a 2.7L V8. I don't care, long as it's got eight pots.

Displacement is want we're talking about, just make a smaller V8.

I still think a 3.5-4L V8 ecoBoost would be the perfect engine for F150s and F250s. Various Tunes.

They could but why invest in a smaller V8 if you already have a 3.5/3.6L engine?! The M177 engine (4.0L AMG engine) is pretty neat but if the F150 doesn't get it the Mustang doesn't get it either...

They might discontinue the coyote and replace it with a 4.0 turbo engine in the future but we haven’t heard any rumors yet. That’s why I assume that the coyote will remain the got to V8 in a Mustang.

 

[MikeyV]

Agreed. The only reason would be to keep a V8 for people that want it.

My wife has an Expedition, with the F-150 tune 3.5. That thing is spry as hell. Great engine, only problem is it has only six cylinders. An esoteric problem.

There's also teh cost/complexity issue. See where ford went with the new 7.3.
So many less parts and things to stock, catalogue and assemble.

Hoping for a 6.8L Godzilla.

 

[Twin Turbo]

'Cmon, it's the Coyote as we know or it nothing.

Like or not, Ford and others are being pushed to build EVs by worldwide legislation. Billions of $ are being spent developing those EVs so any crumbs left on the table will go towards tweaking Coyote if we're lucky.

Our dinosaur V8s aren't dead yet, but the asteroid is hurtling towards earth at a frightening speed

 

[gadgtfreek]

I would like to see the 6.8L in this last batch.

 

[Ace]

I would like to see the 6.8L in this last batch.

I wouldn't hold my breath that this engine is actually for a car that we would name Mustang. It could also be some heavy duty car that gets the badge slapped on

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