Mustang Chief Engineer Confirms Locked ECU, making S650 tune more difficult

[shogun32]

So manufacturers doing the policing thing will loose these customers.
What is of interest is how many of us would not buy a locked car?

I know for a FACT that Ford's tuning of the 2.3Eco is line'm up against eh wall and shoot 'em dead hideous. And GM's tuning of the LT1 also blows. I will REFUSE to buy either one if I am unable to remediate the problem. I could give a damn about extra HP. Drivability and throttle response is infinitely more important!

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[Bikeman315]

I really don't know why this is even discussed. This entire topic just clickbait like a fox news or cnn headline.

If you want to tune/heavily mod, you're probably not looking at a new MY car. Unless you're a youtuber chasing views.

This thread was supposed to be a poll (added as a new thread) as a response to the original ECU thread. Honestly I think it is a legitimate question.

 

[Angrey]

Nah man, S650's ECU will remain locked forever and ever since we all know Ford's software is impenetrable - even for those pesky Russians. BMW, Audi, and Mercedes' ECU encryption is child's play compared to that of Ford. S550 is the last great Mustang, the last real Mustang, the last tunable Mustang. All hail S550, man.

*Intense sarcasm intended for those of you that are a little thick up top.*

So where are said Russians for the DCT? If it's so easy, why can't anyone with a DCT get rid of the torque protections and nanny features?

Just because someone out there that's some sorta hacker genius COULD (in theory) do something, doesn't mean they're going to take time away from whatever they're doing to live their lives to go track down the Ford PCM encryption on mustangs and F150's and save the day.

"Don't worry Bob, there's like 1000 foreign hackers named Vasily that will crack this thing straight away. Now we just have to find them and convince them that cracking the PCM of a car they barely know exists should be higher on their priority list than stealing money and holding corporations hostage for ransom. Should be easy."

Just because the strongest man in the world could easily beat Larry the town arm wrestling champ in Pig's Knuckle Iowa doesn't mean he's booking his flight to do it anytime soon.

And as I wrote, even IF you were to crack the encryption and be able to modify the tune, it's not a stretch to say the remote interactions may be problematic from a number of issues. Have you ever NOT updated your smart phone for an extended period of time?

I think Ford/Mustang guys have been largely spoiled and blind to this, Dodge guys have been dealing with this frustration since 2015.

 

[OppoLock]

"Don't worry Bob, there's like 1000 foreign hackers named Vasily that will crack this thing straight away. Now we just have to find them and convince them that cracking the PCM of a car they barely know exists should be higher on their priority list than stealing money and holding corporations hostage for ransom. Should be easy."

Lmfaoooo

 

[because_murica]

OP didn’t realize that he could have edited his original post to add the poll. So now we have two threads from him. The mods will need to combine.

?? This is the only thread I've made on this topic. I think Veteran was the one with two threads going.

 

[Bikeman315]

?? This is the only thread I've made on this topic. I think Veteran was the one with two threads going.

Sorry about that. It gets confusing. I was referring to @Veteran

 

[because_murica]

So where are said Russians for the DCT? If it's so easy, why can't anyone with a DCT get rid of the torque protections and nanny features?

I can't answer that question. It's a good question, but I just don't know. My guess would be that there hasn't been enough time/money spent on trying to crack it, combined with the fact that the GT500 was only sold in the North American market. So it likely wasn't/isn't worth the time and effort to unlock the GT500's DCT.

 

[Veteran]

?? This is the only thread I've made on this topic. I think Veteran was the one with two threads going.

Yip, sorry guys it was me. Bikerman helped me start a poll. Mods can combine as needed.
With all this talk on locked ecu, it will be good to see how forum members feel about it. So far it seems about a quarter are put off by locked ecu.
Understandably these are the guys into forced induction and or serious power. Without this bunch, things would get a tad boring on the forums.

 

[AvalancheSVT]

It’s the Mustang. It WAS the single most modded car in the world before the federal government made it illegal to unlock the ECU and alter emissions. Hard to push so hard for EV and not see this happening.

SCOTUS has been wrecking the alphabet agencies' shop (most notably ATF and EPA) lately so don't put too much stock in an outnumbered federal govt currently losing out to the constitution.

https://www.nssf.org/articles/why-a-supreme-court-epa-ruling-could-doom-recent-atf-rules/

 

[Bikeman315]

SCOTUS has been wrecking the alphabet agencies' shop (most notably ATF and EPA) lately so don't put too much stock in an outnumbered federal govt currently losing out to the constitution.

https://www.nssf.org/articles/why-a-supreme-court-epa-ruling-could-doom-recent-atf-rules/

Guys, can we please take this part of the conversation off line before the mods have to get involved?

 

[IPOGT]

Why would the mods have to get involved? There’s no argument here just a discussion.

 

[AvalancheSVT]

Guys, can we please take this part of the conversation off line before the mods have to get involved?

the motivation behind the fear of the restrictions are the direct result of mandates, mandates made by alphabet agencies without due process, and as such that post is intended to quell the fears that people will just be SOL because the NSA is all up in your car or something.

a discussion without addressing root causes is just a circle jerk.

the headline here is "guys, quit worrying, people do this EVERY TIME a new mustang is released".

 

[Bikeman315]

Why would the mods have to get involved? There’s no argument here just a discussion.

No I get it. You've both been reasonable and civil. But bring SCOTUS and the ATF into the conversation is bound to set someone off.

the motivation behind the fear of the restrictions are the direct result of mandates, mandates made by alphabet agencies without due process, and as such that post is intended to quell the fears that people will just be SOL because the NSA is all up in your car or something.

a discussion without addressing root causes is just a circle jerk.

the headline here is "guys, quit worrying, people do this EVERY TIME a new mustang is released".

And bringing in the NSA surely doesn't help.

 

[because_murica]

No I get it. You've both been reasonable and civil. But bring SCOTUS and the ATF into the conversation is bound to set someone off.


And bringing in the NSA surely doesn't help.

ATF? NSA? I thought this was the "Scammed by Jackson1320" thread from M6G for a sec.

 

[Cobra Jet]

You may have folks who might be able to "crack" the code to get their grubby little hands into the PCM to try tweaking it - but from what is stated right from the article:

Krenz and other S650 engineers explained that the entire stack on the S650 is encrypted, including the ECU. This means that if the system detects a “break” in authentication, it will shut it down – or shut down components of the vehicle. So even if someone were to modify one of these engines, they wouldn’t be able to actually tune the car to take full advantage of it.

Even IF the PCM is cracked - the above makes it clear that other modules down the line will shut down based on the unauthorized revisions.

So not only is this going to lock the S650 PCM, but it will probably kill off any future Forscan "As Built" modifications that many have done with the S550 - such as stereo upgrades, module upgrades that were not with their As Built vehicle, but they bought used components to install and modify the parameters with Forscan to now get that "option" to work with their vehicle.

What Ford is doing is also trying to curtail the frivolous warranty claims by folks who have added option packages or components to their vehicles that were NOT from the original "As Built" design. That has presented numerous problems because the owner is in for service and the Tech can't get the PCM or modules to correctly communicate since things were modified by the owner. Ford even issued several SSM's to their Dealer Network which simply stated any modification to the As Built would not be covered and the owner is responsible for all costs related to the repair or diagnosis.

I think those coming from prior Mustangs where modding almost anything was commonplace, will be presented with a real disappointment when trying to upgrade any component that is tied into a PCM, BCM, ACM, API, other module or onboard system.

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