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OppoLock

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I guess I must be among the unwashed masses. I just react instinctively to whatever the car throws at me without overthinking things. If it’s quirky, weird or off-putting I’ll either fix it or get rid of the car.

Granted I don’t track my cars but if I had to think about every little thing like you guys are talking about I’d be totally frozen and unable to drive 10 feet.
Depends on your barometer. If you’ve driven cars with mediocre steering characteristics then you wouldn’t be critical of the S550’s. Thing is, most cars have better steering properties so it only makes sense to want those things in your favorite performance car.

It’s one of three points of operation that you deal with every second you’re in a car and a point of discussion that is 100% normal to cover when evaluating one.

Then again, some people love softball reviews that gloss over deficiencies.
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OppoLock

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I think you're missing the point - a bit. But also hitting the nail on the head without even realizing it.

If you're driving flat-out on a track, the car in any given corner is right on the edge of having an off. Not everyone drives this hard. I don't drive that hard all the time, but I try to get there. There are tracks local to me where I feel comfortable pushing that hard (RPM and Heartland Park) and one where I definitely don't (OIR.)

On any given braking zone, you're braking at the last possible moment and slowing down just in time to take the fastest line through the corner (hitting the outside, then inside, then outside of the track again) at a speed that is all the tires will give you.

There's a lot of art to that, and if the car is doing unpredictable things, you just won't be able to push it as hard as a predictable car.

"if I had to think about every little thing like you guys are talking about I’d be totally frozen and unable to drive 10 feet." - this is exactly the problem. If the brakes are predictable, you don't have to think about them. If the throttle is predictable, you don't have to think about it. If the steering is predictable, you don't have to think about it.

This is not to say that any car is perfectly predictable, they're not. The tires heat up and change grip levels. The brakes heat up and lose effectiveness. The engine can get heat soaked and pull timing and or have histrionics with boost.

But a sorted track car seeks to eliminate or minimize the unpredictable, not add to it.

I just can't imagine that an electronic brake pedal with different maps is going to do anything for the predictability of the car's track manners.
The funny thing is that you don’t even have to track an S550 GT to know its steering is subpar lol.
 

Spart

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The funny thing is that you don’t even have to track an S550 GT to know its steering is subpar lol.
I had a GTPP before the GT350. I feel like the GT350 steering still isn't fantastic for a modern car, but the best thing I can say about it is that I don't notice it on track.

My impression is that the GT350's improvements are down mostly to toe alignment, spring rate, and swaybar. The GTPP kind of wanted to roll before it started turning, whereas the GT350 is more immediate.
 

OppoLock

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I had a GTPP before the GT350. I feel like the GT350 steering still isn't fantastic for a modern car, but the best thing I can say about it is that I don't notice it on track.

My impression is that the GT350's improvements are down mostly to toe alignment, spring rate, and swaybar. The GTPP kind of wanted to roll before it started turning, whereas the GT350 is more immediate.
I had both as well and couldn’t find a single similarity. On-center feel/dead zone, initial turn-in response, the rate and intuition of resistance load, general bump/rebound feedback, and overall accuracy felt separated. Only downside was the awful tramlining in the GT350 which likely comes down to ~300 section front tires and more aggressive alignment.
 

Spart

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I had both as well and couldn’t find a single similarity. On-center feel/dead zone, initial turn-in response, the rate and intuition of resistance load, general bump/rebound feedback, and overall accuracy felt separated. Only downside was the awful tramlining in the GT350 which likely comes down to ~300 section front tires and more aggressive alignment.
I had GT350 rubber on my GTPP and didn't notice the tramlining.

Honestly with the roads around here, tramlining in the GT350 is pretty rare (but does happen.)

Take my comments as my estimation of what changes would have resulted in steering feel more similar to the GT350 in the GT. Before I sold the GTPP, I had figured on buying the GT350 springs and sway bars and doing the GT350 alignment spec. I had the Ford Performance dampers on the list too. I never did go through with it though, so I don't know for sure that it would have gotten me there.
 


young at heart

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The funny thing is that you don’t even have to track an S550 GT to know its steering is subpar lol.
As I said before, I don’t track mine but I do drive ‘em pretty hard on twisty mountain roads and they seem to go where I turn the wheel. I guess I must have two bad ones.
 

OppoLock

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As I said before, I don’t track mine but I do drive ‘em pretty hard on twisty mountain roads and they seem to go where I turn the wheel. I guess I must have two bad ones.
If you’re happy that’s all that matters. If responding to your basic input and having a non crooked alignment is all that matters, that’s fine
 

Spart

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As I said before, I don’t track mine but I do drive ‘em pretty hard on twisty mountain roads and they seem to go where I turn the wheel. I guess I must have two bad ones.
Well let's be clear, there are levels to this stuff.

How does a basic GT compare to say... a Challenger? Extremely well. You'd think Chrysler/Staleanus/WhateverTheyHellTheyCallThemselvesOnWednesdays could find a steering setup that didn't come out of a truck, but you'd be wrong. A GT is a whole different world compared to the numb and uncommunicative setup on the Challenger.

Is the difference between a GT350 and a GT as night and day as the difference between a GT and Challenger? No. Not even close.

But the qualities that the GT350 has (and to take the point further, the qualities that say a C7Z06 has over the GT350) can be felt and appreciated.

It matters on a track if it makes your inputs more precise and timely.
 

OppoLock

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Is the difference between a GT350 and a GT as night and day as the difference between a GT and Challenger? No. Not even close.
Just how bad is the Challenger steering… are we talking mid-00s Ford Expedition/Toyota SUV bad? Because imo the difference between a GT PP and GT350 is night and day per the universal critical opinion of journalists.
 

Spart

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Just how bad is the Challenger steering… are we talking mid-00s Ford Expedition/Toyota SUV bad? Because imo the difference between a GT PP and GT350 is night and day per the universal critical opinion of journalists.
It's like they had a corporate standard that you don't feel anything at all through the steering wheel.

It's what I would imagine steer-by-wire would largely feel like.

I could push the car I drove (a 2016 Hellcat manual, not widebody, but with wider-than-factory rubber) through corners, but I never had any confidence at all with regard to what was happening with the front rubber.
 

OppoLock

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It's like they had a corporate standard that you don't feel anything at all through the steering wheel.

It's what I would imagine steer-by-wire would largely feel like.

I could push the car I drove (a 2016 Hellcat manual, not widebody, but with wider-than-factory rubber) through corners, but I never had any confidence at all with regard to what was happening with the front rubber.
Sounds exactly like what I’d expect lol
 

IPOGT

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I am on the opposite side of this. I just want a very linear throttle and brake curve, since that's how you can apply throttle and brake the best. But most people are just too dumb to drive and would easily throw away their powerful car if you had that as the standard. So the carmakers add softer touring curves so regular people can apply the power curve easier.

With the by wire technologies you finally have both, the normal people can drive the car without any understanding how to put power down and for people who really want to apply the performance clean you can have the linear curves. And you always have the custom mode for your own prefered setup.
it’s been downhill ever since you can’t just replace the throttle spring. :cwl:
 

KINGKONA

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Electric assist on the brakes.

Jesus.....the best thing on the car, and they go and fuck with it.

Ford continues to fail at every turn.
 

Hack

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I think the S550 steering is pretty good for electronic steering. The tires and wheels definitely turn in direct proportion to the amount the steering wheel is turned.

The biggest issue I see is that the suspension is overly soft on a heavy and powerful car with a relatively high center of gravity. PP1 suspension is like a 1972 Cadillac. The body of the car is barely controlled at all.

Yes the PP1 and GT350 feel different, but if you put decently firm suspension on the PP1 like a Ford Performance track handling kit, it feels very similar to the GT350. If you put large, sticky tires on the car almost all you will be missing is the additional body control from magneride. And that is mostly only noticeable on track. The tramlining (better steering feel) is the other thing that will be missing.

AFAI can tell, S550 steering feel isn't the greatest, but very few modern cars have better steering feel. Maybe my old 944 was a little better, but of the cars I've driven that's about it. I've driven 911s, but only test drives so I can't tell you whether I would think they are better at the limit. According to reviewers even most 911s have numb steering now.

The nice thing about the GT350 steering is it gave the driver feedback. Yes tramlining is feedback. But people didn't like that. I think most drivers prefer numb steering over that kind of feedback.
 

VRYALT3R3D

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unless it is better than my modified GT, im not buying one.
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