S650 steering and handling is night and day difference compared to S550 Mustang says Chief Engineer Ed Krenz

[young at heart]

The funny thing is that you don’t even have to track an S550 GT to know its steering is subpar lol.

As I said before, I don’t track mine but I do drive ‘em pretty hard on twisty mountain roads and they seem to go where I turn the wheel. I guess I must have two bad ones.

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[OppoLock]

As I said before, I don’t track mine but I do drive ‘em pretty hard on twisty mountain roads and they seem to go where I turn the wheel. I guess I must have two bad ones.

If you’re happy that’s all that matters. If responding to your basic input and having a non crooked alignment is all that matters, that’s fine

 

[OppoLock]

Is the difference between a GT350 and a GT as night and day as the difference between a GT and Challenger? No. Not even close.

Just how bad is the Challenger steering… are we talking mid-00s Ford Expedition/Toyota SUV bad? Because imo the difference between a GT PP and GT350 is night and day per the universal critical opinion of journalists.

 

[OppoLock]

It's like they had a corporate standard that you don't feel anything at all through the steering wheel.

It's what I would imagine steer-by-wire would largely feel like.

I could push the car I drove (a 2016 Hellcat manual, not widebody, but with wider-than-factory rubber) through corners, but I never had any confidence at all with regard to what was happening with the front rubber.

Sounds exactly like what I’d expect lol

 

[IPOGT]

I am on the opposite side of this. I just want a very linear throttle and brake curve, since that's how you can apply throttle and brake the best. But most people are just too dumb to drive and would easily throw away their powerful car if you had that as the standard. So the carmakers add softer touring curves so regular people can apply the power curve easier.

With the by wire technologies you finally have both, the normal people can drive the car without any understanding how to put power down and for people who really want to apply the performance clean you can have the linear curves. And you always have the custom mode for your own prefered setup.

it’s been downhill ever since you can’t just replace the throttle spring.

 

[KINGKONA]

Electric assist on the brakes.

Jesus.....the best thing on the car, and they go and fuck with it.

Ford continues to fail at every turn.

 

[Hack]

I think the S550 steering is pretty good for electronic steering. The tires and wheels definitely turn in direct proportion to the amount the steering wheel is turned.

The biggest issue I see is that the suspension is overly soft on a heavy and powerful car with a relatively high center of gravity. PP1 suspension is like a 1972 Cadillac. The body of the car is barely controlled at all.

Yes the PP1 and GT350 feel different, but if you put decently firm suspension on the PP1 like a Ford Performance track handling kit, it feels very similar to the GT350. If you put large, sticky tires on the car almost all you will be missing is the additional body control from magneride. And that is mostly only noticeable on track. The tramlining (better steering feel) is the other thing that will be missing.

AFAI can tell, S550 steering feel isn't the greatest, but very few modern cars have better steering feel. Maybe my old 944 was a little better, but of the cars I've driven that's about it. I've driven 911s, but only test drives so I can't tell you whether I would think they are better at the limit. According to reviewers even most 911s have numb steering now.

The nice thing about the GT350 steering is it gave the driver feedback. Yes tramlining is feedback. But people didn't like that. I think most drivers prefer numb steering over that kind of feedback.

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

unless it is better than my modified GT, im not buying one.

 

[Bikeman315]

Electric assist on the brakes.

Jesus.....the best thing on the car, and they go and fuck with it.

Ford continues to fail at every turn.

Maybe wait until they are tested before condeming Ford. They could be the best brakes ever.

unless it is better than my modified GT, im not buying one.

So you want to compare a car with a stock suspension to your heavily modified suspension. Yup, makes total sense.

 

[OppoLock]

Maybe wait until they are tested before condeming Ford. They could be the best brakes ever.


So you want to compare a car with a stock suspension to your heavily modified suspension. Yup, makes total sense.

I’m sure 60 year old John Doe would love to blow out his back on a speed bump because Ford decided to stick KW V3s on stock Mustangs

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

Is there a general consensus on a car with the "best handling/steering feel"? (My guess would be the Miata.)

 

[OppoLock]

Is there a general consensus on a car with the "best handling/steering feel"? (My guess would be the Miata.)

Probably Porsche’s GT# lineup in terms of holy grail volume road cars. Only recent ones I’ve driven were a buddy’s 781 GTS (not a real GT car but still great) and a 991 GT3 RS (one of those rent a track car things).

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

So you want to compare a car with a stock suspension to your heavily modified suspension. Yup, makes total sense.

Yup, sure does. The ZL1 1LE is much better than my GT with modified suspension. If the Mustang can't exceed my benchmark, I won't bother with it

 

[Hack]

By the way you worded this, it sounds like you think the S550 is steer by wire (which could have the wheels turn in a varying proportion to the steering wheel, with different steering "maps" or whatever.)

This is not the case, the steering wheel is mechanically connected to the wheels. The E in EPAS does indeed stand for Electric, but the rest of the letters in that acronym stand for Power Assisted Steering. The electronic bit merely replaces the hydraulic bit used in older vehicles. You can still turn the wheels in an S550 when the EPAS rack is unpowered, it's just really heavy. I actually do this pretty frequently to put the flat bottom of my GT350 wheel in the best place for egress, so I'm less likely to damage the wheel with keys or a knife or some other hard object in my pocket.

Even Teslas are not steer by wire - yet. From the sounds of things, they're moving in that direction.

Exactly. There is a direct connection steering wheel to wheels and turning the steering wheel makes the front wheels turn. Repeatably and accurately.

There isn't much else to complain about with regards to the steering in my opinion. The wheels turn properly. The only other thing someone might want is feel. And almost no cars with EPAS have good steering feel.

I'll repeat it. IMO the steering in Mustangs is fine. There's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Hack]

Is there a general consensus on a car with the "best handling/steering feel"? (My guess would be the Miata.)

The general consensus is that older cars with hydraulic steering could have good feel. And there were a number of cars that did have good feel. Porsches and BMWs commonly are the brands that I've heard reviewers rave about the most. I don't know if I've ever heard about the Miata having good steering feel, but I would assume the older cars with hydraulic steering do.

I believe McLarens and some Mercedes still have hydraulic power steering. If I were to guess about a car that might have extremely good steering feel, I would say McLaren F1. It's really light and really well made.

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