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amk91

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Doing some fishing around, I think I found the guy in charge of the whole shebang. Michael Celetino. And judging by the date he started, seems like CD6 Stang was shelved right when Hackett took over in May 2017.

Looks like 5 years is being spent on this by him. He previously worked on 2017 Lincoln Continental (cough MKS), MKS, and Taurus.

Wonder if Ford can really manage making CD6 work for the Mustang in 2027, if a Lincoln Zephyr sports sedan was supposed to be on it originally.


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amk91

amk91

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Looks like some important stuff wrapped up in May 2020 as well, via another S650 engineer. Hopefully that's a good thing.


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Twin Turbo

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Good info, yet again Sir!

I'd assumed Carl Widmann would have still been the Chief Engineer for S650. As most will know, Dave Pericak was Chief Engineer for S550 through development to production. He was then promoted to head up Ford Performance and is now head of "Icons". Carl Widmann took over from him at lead the team for the '18 refresh up until now.

However, I guess there would be an overlap over responsibilities as development of S650 would have been underway at the same time as new S550 derivatives (such as Mach 1 and the Ecoboost HPP). Perhaps it doesn't make sense for the same person to be responsible for both.

In the film "A Faster Horse", Hau Thai-Tang (Chief Engineer for S197) said something along the lines of " if you're a successful Mustang Chief Engineer you get asked to do something better, if not, you're asked to do something else". I expect (hope) Mr Widmann is moving onto bigger things. That being said, working on Mustang IS the pinnacle in my opinion!
 

DarthMalice

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Wonder if this new guy was in a faster horse at all? Widmann was the aerodynamics guy on S550. I also wonder if that Barnes guy is still on Mustang. Wish that movie was still on Netflix.
 

Twin Turbo

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Wonder if this new guy was in a faster horse at all? Widmann was the aerodynamics guy on S550. I also wonder if that Barnes guy is still on Mustang. Wish that movie was still on Netflix.
Tom Barnes is still with Team Mustang. His name was mentioned a couple of times by Jim Owens during the Mach 1 launch. Tom is a lovely gent, I had the pleasure of meeting him outside the Henry Ford Museum a few years back :)
 

IrishStallion

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Just being an observer, but I would guess this second muscle era is just about done. This covid is the proverbial fork in the back. Manufacturers are not going to be in a rush to produce any of the “fun” stuff until there are signs of the economy coming back on full boil. Not looking good folks...
 

Twin Turbo

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S550 was developed during a huge recession, with Detroit having announced bankruptcy. When you're at rock bottom, things can only get better. Pushing through with S550 has been one of Ford's bigger successes :)
 

noac

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I believe Tom Barnes has a lot of input on PPL2.
 

NoVaGT

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I remember when the S550 was in development, and all the bullshit that the designers and engineers said it was going to be. Like how it was going to be lighter, smaller, more sports carish. There were round table meetings of the designers and engineers put on Youtube, where they were discussing how much smaller and lighter the car was going to be......

And then it wasn't.

I'll skip worrying about who is involved in the design & engineering. I got interested in it the last time, I followed along as the information started coming out about the S550.

Not going to make the same mistake a 2nd time.
 

MikeyV

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Regarding continuing on the current chassis, or moving to the CD6.

I remember a few years back Ford said hey, these are the chassis we are consolidating ALL our vehicles to.

Focus Chassis/Escape
CD6 for RWD or 4WD passenger cars
Ranger chassis
F-150 Chassis
Super duty Chassis

Combine this info with all the chatter of Hybrid (they said it was coming) 4WD (Hey, Dodge did it on Challenger) and what not.

It seems the effort to get hybrid/4wd stuff into the current S550 chassis would be wasted money when the CD6 has it already.
The other option to forgo hybrid stuff until the CD6 does come to the Mustang. Then they'd be missing out, especially with FORD's own big electric push.

But why wait?
 

Hi-PO Stang

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I think Ford is going to be financially better sooner than most think. I see an awful lot of F150 trucks heading to dealerships now. Try to order a 2020 Mustang and you will find you may have to wait three months to get one. There appears to be an increase in demand for Ford trucks and Mustangs.
 

Jarstang

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I think Ford is going to be financially better sooner than most think. I see an awful lot of F150 trucks heading to dealerships now. Try to order a 2020 Mustang and you will find you may have to wait three months to get one. There appears to be an increase in demand for Ford trucks and Mustangs.
Add to that the 2021 Bronco which is already showing that it will be a big profit maker for Ford.
 

jpindustrie

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the beat goes on ...

they are doing everything they can (and that can including re-using old but good hardware) to keep delivering those 2 door coupes convertibles year after year...
 

S550Boss

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I remember when the S550 was in development, and all the bullshit that the designers and engineers said it was going to be. Like how it was going to be lighter, smaller, more sports carish. There were round table meetings of the designers and engineers put on Youtube, where they were discussing how much smaller and lighter the car was going to be......
And then it wasn't.
As soon as that infamous spy pic was published showing the IRS underneath an S197, you realized that S550 was just a reworked S197... open up the CAD, rework here and there, and you have S550. Looking underneath at the floor plan at the launch events, seeing the location of all the hard points, the identical structure of the B-pillar (the early drawings of the car even had the exact same B-pillar), the identical width engine compartment (and the BS claim that the former GT500 engine wouldn't fit), things like the + instead the X stamped in the floor pan as just one example... I made this observation to the head of North America at a launch event and got a strange silence and a positive shake of the head.
There was a lot of hype and BS in the entire program, especially about weight loss when the final car ended up heavier, and heavier than the corresponding Camaro (instead of lighter). I'd like to see a validation of the claim that when they realized how good the new rear suspension was, that they went back to the "bank" and asked for budget for an enhanced front suspension (much needed because of the ridiculous S197 brake dive). However it happened, that was a very good thing. And then there are the numerous changes made for the Shelby programs: hundreds of different parts, changed front hubs, three different sets of uprights and control arms and brake systems in the rear suspension across all the models, etc. At the GT350 launch I asked an engineer about that... yes it was excellent work, very very well done, but it also substantially increased the expense.
So Ford did a lot of great work with S550... and perhaps the smartest move was internationalizing the Mustang so that it could be sold in far broader markets.
Likely the S650 is just a "top hat" of this car, with modification for a battery in the trunk for the TBD hybrid engine. I can't see how they couldn't possibly spend the money to add, for example, an AWD V-8 hybrid (and the car's weight balance is bad enough as is). I could see aluminum for the hood, doors and trunk and hopefully the roof... but no more than that.
CD6 is where it's at... it's already designed for a significant weight loss, the rear suspension is similar to what we have now, and the front suspension is a choice of either ye olde cheap strut (Explorer) or a nice beautiful SLA front suspension in the Lincoln version (and interestingly also in the European Explorer with the hybrid option). And weight saving measures all through and right from the start. This is what you get with a new platform... and a shared [platform. Versus the S550, which was an evolved S197, which was a de-volved and dumbed-down DEW-98 (and a real shame about that).
Going back even further, Hau Thai-Tang said a lot of stupid and insulting things about the IRS rear suspension for the S197 that was cancelled in the last minute budget and personnel purge. That's why he didn't go any further, and was exiled out of the country until the heat died down.
 

S550Boss

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Add to that the 2021 Bronco which is already showing that it will be a big profit maker for Ford.
Ford is in a really crucial couple of months here...
The Mach-E can be a big hit... IF it's launched as promised (notice how many press statements have been made about that), IF it drives well, IF it has the battery range (which is does not). And it's limited by battery supplies to only 50k units in the first year - pitiful. How many of us would take a Mach-E GT over a Tesla 3/Y with the performance option? None because that Tesla blows away supercars and is 5-10 years ahead of Ford. Maybe a few true blue Ford fans because the Mach-E acceleration is only a few tenths in 0-60 from the GT500.
The Bronco Sport has a border problem outlined in today's newspapers. Nice job of engineering here on the already excellent platform, and especially in that optional rear diff. Very serious work there.
The Bronco can be huge... and clearly some very serious work was done across the board. It has to launch and be delivered without a single hitch. It's a very nice job, and also likely doesn't have the absurd crash rollover issue the Jeep has (so well demonstrated in the recent NHTSA video). That alone is enough reason to buy it over the Jeep, but there are also dozens of other reasons.
The F-150 is a masterpiece... and that team knows how to deliver it. And there are still spy pics of s shortened F-150 mule with Raptor gear and coil spring rear suspension... whatever that is. Maybe a "big" Bronco. If true, then a spring announcement is likely... although how does this get reconciled with the F-150 Raptor?
So Ford is on a roll... except the stock which hasn't even cleared the $mid-6 range. Somebody might have been smart to buy a pile when it hit absolute rock bottom a little while ago... and perhaps bet on $9 in their plan. Which after some successful launches and deliveries and you might be fortunate to see. A small profit could be made here.
 
 
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