Chief Engineer of S650 Mustang talks Coyote, EcoBoost, Dark Horse Upgrades

[FruityJudy]

I thought I remember Ford having a poll/suggestion vote for the next special model name? Maybe Im wrong hell idk. I dont care if they call it Dukey edition as long as it has some good performance/value

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[BoostRabbitGT]

Guess I'm the only one who unironically likes the Dark Horse name, despite unintentionally almost spelling it as "Dark House" on my phone numerous times.

Besides using past names, what would've been a better name in everyone else's minds?

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

Could have been nite pony

 

[9secondko]

1, Lulz as if google search results means anything. How many of those results are the Katy Perry song Dark Horse? Maybe that's it, really they don't wanna admit they just REALLY love Katy Perry.

2, literally don't care about that old ass story, heard it 5000000 times. If anything its still more creative than the dumb ass thing behind why "dark horse" was picked. "an unexpected model that nobody saw coming" So what? Is this the Spanish Inquisition of Mustangs? again its NOT that no one saw it coming its that people thought the leaks were about the GT. The fact you hid the NAME is not impressive when everyone already read that 500 HP and the tremec was coming and expected it for the GT. If anything all they did was disappoint people that wanted those specs for a GT.. wooo. I'm impressed.....no not really.

3, Darkhorse is a shit name. period. end. Shit could run 10's show room stock and wont make the NAME any better.

you may not have heard that expression. But it’s been around a long time. It basically means big time underdog that overcomes adversity to win. Actually pretty fitting considering a possibly dying Camaro and charger going EV.

I don’t know your incredulity though. A lot of stuff on the internet is misinformation. Especially the stuff that claims to combat misinformation.

but in this case, the Krause “dark horse” has a long history and is commonly used even today.

There is even a comic book conpany called Dark horse Comics - apltly named - that competed with giants such as DC and marvel.

 

[murick]

you may not have heard that expression. But it’s been around a long time. It basically means big time underdog that overcomes adversity to win.

It has a slightly different connotation here - someone, something, no one really expects to win, but who (surprisingly) may. I cannot say how specific it sounds in English, but in Czech it has a quite generic connotation, nothing you would name anything after.

 

[Mazman]

 

[Mach VII]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they chose 'Dark Horse' because of the competition they will face in GT3/Gt4 racing.... Porsche, BMW, Toyota/Acura (NSX), Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley, Aston Martin, Mercedes etc. Basically fighting against cars that in street-form cost 2x - 4x the price of a lowly Mustang.

 

[Tpen]

Not crazy about the Dark Horse name either, but I get where they were going. If you've never heard the saying, "They were a dark horse", the name may not make sense to you.

Contrary to popular opinion, I like this name. Besides who saw it coming nobody knew that we where getting a sweet package like that.
Although i wish they had gone FPC and not naturally aspirated i love it.

 

[Schwerin]

you may not have heard that expression. But it’s been around a long time. It basically means big time underdog that overcomes adversity to win. Actually pretty fitting considering a possibly dying Camaro and charger going EV.

I don’t know your incredulity though. A lot of stuff on the internet is misinformation. Especially the stuff that claims to combat misinformation.

but in this case, the Krause “dark horse” has a long history and is commonly used even today.

There is even a comic book conpany called Dark horse Comics - apltly named - that competed with giants such as DC and marvel.

Fitting how? How is the best selling and one of the winningest sports car ever made, and nearly every year, being the one still standing the "big time underdog". It's making TONS of money. Of course it's going to stick around.

Trying to pretend that Mustang is somehow an underdog is IMO just dumb and ignorant.

It has a slightly different connotation here - someone, something, no one really expects to win, but who (surprisingly) may. I cannot say how specific it sounds in English, but in Czech it has a quite generic connotation, nothing you would name anything after.

This^^^ Would anyone like their car to be called the Mustang GT Underdog? The fact that DH - more "edgy" doesn't make it cool.

Contrary to popular opinion, I like this name. Besides who saw it coming nobody knew that we where getting a sweet package like that.
Although i wish they had gone FPC and not naturally aspirated i love it.

Wait. Who didn't? There were tremec/500HP and Handling tested against the mach1(in photos) rumors and leaks for MONTHS. I don't get how anyone DIDNT expect this. The only difference is that everyone expected it to be the GT, not a trim above the GT. The ONLY part of the whole unveiling that wasnt expected was that it wasn't the GT getting those specs but a different trim level.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they chose 'Dark Horse' because of the competition they will face in GT3/Gt4 racing.... Porsche, BMW, Toyota/Acura (NSX), Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley, Aston Martin, Mercedes etc. Basically fighting against cars that in street-form cost 2x - 4x the price of a lowly Mustang.

By that logic the new Nissan Z GT4 is even more of a Dark Horse than the Dark Horse.

 

[DarthMalice]

Pericak is a Dark Horse. He was very competent and engaging in an interview or on stage and was obviously a very capable engineer too. He really helped make A Faster Horse a great documentary. Carl W. was not as good but not as bad as this new guy. Carl would say stuff like "bodacious" in interviews, but would also be in his stride on others and seemed very capable on the engineering side. This new guy isn't as inspiring in either regard.

Back to the car...this engine was headed to the Mach 1. I would put a stake down on that...the 500+ rumors when Mach 1 was announced...the cutouts that are now simply set pieces to hearken back to the "old" when everything else was done with a performance goal in mind including not doing a shaker. Why was it pushed? Who knows but I would theorize 3: 1) it wasn't going to be certified/ready by the desired launch so they fell back to the Bullitt, 2) too close to trumping the S550 GT350-heritage is a thing and the HP Mach 1 already matches the 350 on the track - a 500+ Mach 1 would have beaten it...period; 3) new engine design is a compelling selling point for S650 when not much else is. Ford probably knew that new fascia and the stuck on iPads would be divisive....even legacy Mustang owners will bite at more HP though.

The Dark Horse name makes sense for its intent...whether it takes or not in terms of becoming an enduring name like Boss, Mach or Shelby seems questionable to me. The good thing for Ford is that they have so many brands to choose from so relegating one to the trash heap if it doesn't work is not hard. I think it is Ford trying to find a name to get away from Shelby and licensing fees associated with that name. My opinion, but Boss and Mach 1 are better as "come and go" names...it makes them special. I think Ford wants a high end variant they can offer all the time but Shelby is expensive.

 

[Mach VII]

....By that logic the new Nissan Z GT4 is even more of a Dark Horse than the Dark Horse.

Perhaps it is, GT4 racing will have it and the Mustang which are a bit down the ladder when comparing prices of street cars versions - https://www.gt4-america.com/cars

However, GT3 has a lot of big boys in the mix and the Mustang looks out of place... hence 'Dark Horse' - https://www.gt-world-challenge-america.com/cars

 

[TrackMustang]

Not a comment on the car, but chief engineer is a terrible presenter. He legit looked like he didn't have anything to say at the launch event, the speaker had to continuously prompt him

Chief Engineers are typically not public facing for a reason. The two types of personalities rarely combine in one person.

 

[dddd]

why would they backtrack to steel instead aluminum? dont they need weight savings for mpg requirements? every pound matters

Hopefully it will get an aluminum bonnet instead, which makes more sense than aluminum guards anyway

 

[Schwerin]

Pericak is a Dark Horse. He was very competent and engaging in an interview or on stage and was obviously a very capable engineer too. He really helped make A Faster Horse a great documentary. Carl W. was not as good but not as bad as this new guy. Carl would say stuff like "bodacious" in interviews, but would also be in his stride on others and seemed very capable on the engineering side. This new guy isn't as inspiring in either regard.

Back to the car...this engine was headed to the Mach 1. I would put a stake down on that...the 500+ rumors when Mach 1 was announced...the cutouts that are now simply set pieces to hearken back to the "old" when everything else was done with a performance goal in mind including not doing a shaker. Why was it pushed? Who knows but I would theorize 3: 1) it wasn't going to be certified/ready by the desired launch so they fell back to the Bullitt, 2) too close to trumping the S550 GT350-heritage is a thing and the HP Mach 1 already matches the 350 on the track - a 500+ Mach 1 would have beaten it...period; 3) new engine design is a compelling selling point for S650 when not much else is. Ford probably knew that new fascia and the stuck on iPads would be divisive....even legacy Mustang owners will bite at more HP though.

The Dark Horse name makes sense for its intent...whether it takes or not in terms of becoming an enduring name like Boss, Mach or Shelby seems questionable to me. The good thing for Ford is that they have so many brands to choose from so relegating one to the trash heap if it doesn't work is not hard. I think it is Ford trying to find a name to get away from Shelby and licensing fees associated with that name. My opinion, but Boss and Mach 1 are better as "come and go" names...it makes them special. I think Ford wants a high end variant they can offer all the time but Shelby is expensive.

I think that shortly after the MachE(1) was announced there was going to be a BOSS announcement. With the poor reception they decided to extend the GT350 life and figured it would be easy to use what was already developed for the new Bullitt and PPL2. Let's face it the Bullitt tweaks are great but NO what's expected of a Mach1 or Boss. I believe originally there was no plan for a PPL2 or Bullitt.

If the Mach1(e) had been fine the BOSS would be a 2019 car, GT350 ending in '17 or '18 with the PPL2+BULLITT being its specs, maybe with a tremec and the Mach1 grill we got. And with no actual PPL2 or Bullitt people would accept it just fine, maybe think its a LITTLE under powered for a BOSS. The Bullitt probably would have been just then intake/TB/tune that Ford Performance sells as that historically that's all its been.

With the Mach1(e) pushed back the GT350 got extended, what was on hand inventory for the Boss already became the PPL2 and the engine turned into the BULLITT, maybe with a LITTLE bit milder tune than a BOSS would have gotten. Semi explains why the 2018 PPL2 was supposed to be limited to under 1500 cars. Later when Ford figure out WTF to do about a promised Mach1 they just put the BOSS BACK together, with tweaks to make it a bit more aggressive than the PPL2, and with DIff cooling its biggest feedback issue the GT350 coolers.

But it still makes me wonder why if a BOSS, or even Mach1, car was planned they didn't do more for then power. I'm kind of surprised they didn't plan to give it a more aggressive cam and/or a higher redline. This would be a LITTLE excusable if there was no PPL2/Bullitt to compare it to as it would have the +20HP, likely a little bit more aggressive tuning to be more like a 485-490, and the added tremec gearing. Together against a PPL1 GT it would have had a very clear advantage like the resulting Mach1 does against a PPL1. As it sits, coolers/gearing aside I don't see reason to get a base 2021 Mach1 over a 2020 PPL2 + Power Pack, or Bullitt with the FP handling kit. You save THOUSANDS in comparison.

The problem is anyone that can tell what happened behind closed door STILL works at Ford and are under NDA's. So, we'll likely never know like the mystery of the N/A 2003 Cobra motor that didn't meet expectations so they went SC and if that engine was really the tweaks that went to the 2003 Mach1 or not. Or the SVT Escort ZX2 engine that turned into the 212 HP turbo Focus RS engine. Ford had a good shot at being the first US maker to have a turbo 4 with 200+ HP in the Fast and Furious turner hype hitting in the late 90's with the SRT4 and Cobalt SS, but canceled it and sent the engine over seas. It was a few horses less than its competition, but ZX2 also weighed 100-200lbs less and had a more aggressive gearing ratio in it. The ZX2 often ran with cars with 15-30hp more than it due to that.

Ford seems to have a history of hindering the Mach1 to make SVT/FP products look better, and then its smaller cars to make Mustang look better.

 

[Evo1986]

Yes the engineer wasn't a good presenter (especially when he had his hands in this pockets while talking, gosh i just wanted to punch him) But if they know people like that, they need to set up a team that could help him with the presentation to make it look appealing.

The crowd was apart from a few people lame af.

Didn't they mention somewhere that the DH will have 507 BHP in the states? I am sure the DH will be a great success not only from the looks, but also performance wise.

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