Mustang Chief Engineer Confirms Locked ECU, making S650 tune more difficult

[Bikeman315]

I hear you 100%. But what do you do with the genius’ that still use 12345 as a password? Sometimes we are our own worst enemies.

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[IPOGT]

It’s not all about privacy…. I’m in technology for the past (lots of) years. This isn’t good for reasons we haven’t even thought of yet…..Everything you own is becoming exploitable which is dangerous.

I hear you 100%. But what do you do with the genius’ that still use 12345 as a password? Sometimes we are our own worst enemies.

It’s WAY beyond comprehension. Worries about passwords are nothing more than an insignificant relic compared to the capabilities that have the ability to exist as threats today.

 

[Schwerin]

I hear you 100%. But what do you do with the genius’ that still use 12345 as a password? Sometimes we are our own worst enemies.

Personally, I feel we cater to the stupid too much. Why is it BAD to tell people they are ignorant about something and should learn about it? Why do we have to make it OKAY for people to be shit drivers with 40k sensors in cars to prevent lane drift and auto cruse distance. Why do I have to pay for features I don't need and just turn off because we can't make our driver's license test worth taking and have to be a repeatable test?

We Never uphold, reward, and reinforce the smart people that do things right because "it's just expected". Instead, we just spend all our time and abilities and money to help enable the stupid instead of forcing them to learn to do things right.

If you're so bad at driving that you need all the shit in cars today to be able to drive, you Should NOT BE DRIVING. Just like we should FORCE people at work to attend regular Security training. EVEN THE C-LEVEL. And if the CEO is too stupid to pass the basics, he should be held accountable in some way just like the random office assistant is.

I'm tired of pandering to the stupid just because they happen to be rich, or well-connected and never had to own up to their stupid ignorance.

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

This is a great idea but at what cost to the tuners. Back when I worked for Panasonic’s business telephone division we had two types of system’s. Analog systems that could be bought and installed by anyone and digital systems that required certification. This entailed a three day class at a Panasonic location and cost I think around $800.00. For a lot of dealers it was worth the time and money, there’s not so much.

For the larger tuners, Lund, Livernois, and PBD it may be worth it. For your local guy maybe not. Also, we know that tune improvements for the Gen 3 engine were minimal without E85. We will have to wait and see what a tune for a S650 looks like.

Obviously, this whole thing being hypothetical, there’s no telling how it could go, if at all. But I feel like with the DH-R and S, being aimed at racing teams, there will have to be a way to make changes to ECU strategy on the fly. Either with approved software or through an unlocked ECU. Just kind of spitballing here. A certification program could simply be requiring the purchase or lease of a purpose made computer that ford specs to interface the car with. I’m sure some investment would need to be made by the tuner. Or maybe they literally do nothing, who knows.

 

[Angrey]

Few things.

1) Even if aftermarket tuners "crack" it, it might not matter if uploads/downloads to the mother ship aren't as the computer thinks they should be. At a minimum, it will tip off Ford that you haven't updated in awhile (which begs the question why you've refused. Try doing it on your phone, refusing the updates, it works, until it doesn't).

2) The idea that it WILL be cracked isn't exactly solid. It's taken a couple of years for them to "crack" the C8 PCM and so it's yet to be seen if that's fully resolved. Furthermore, no one has been able to "crack" the DCT.

3) You'll be able to run very expensive standalones as an option. Oh, $8k-$10k additional isn't really an option for you? Yeah, a separate management system isn't really a solution for most mortal aftermarket enthusiasts.

4) The article does a bit of the "other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the show?" Yes, FR and Roush and Whipple and whomever else will have 50 state legal calibrations, but it will be "limited" in whatever Ford approves for wide distribution. We can read that to mean, you'll be able to get the equivalent of the current Roush setup. Not terrible, but not exactly wide open to the aftermarket enthusiasts wanting big power or full control over how the car is customized/modded.

What this all tells, me, barring any sort of anonymous/hacker style breakthrough, the S550 will be the most desirable mustang on the market for full menu modifications. The EV's will reset the bar again, but they'll cost a fortune to do so and be even more limited/constrained by what you can and can't do to them.

 

[Bikeman315]

I'm tired of pandering to the stupid just because they happen to be rich, or well-connected and never had to own up to their stupid ignorance.

Hey, don’t forget all the stupid poor, non connected people out there. No discriminating against the rich and well connected.

 

[because_murica]

Few things.

1) Even if aftermarket tuners "crack" it, it might not matter if uploads/downloads to the mother ship aren't as the computer thinks they should be. At a minimum, it will tip off Ford that you haven't updated in awhile (which begs the question why you've refused. Try doing it on your phone, refusing the updates, it works, until it doesn't).

2) The idea that it WILL be cracked isn't exactly solid. It's taken a couple of years for them to "crack" the C8 PCM and so it's yet to be seen if that's fully resolved. Furthermore, no one has been able to "crack" the DCT.

3) You'll be able to run very expensive standalones as an option. Oh, $8k-$10k additional isn't really an option for you? Yeah, a separate management system isn't really a solution for most mortal aftermarket enthusiasts.

4) The article does a bit of the "other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the show?" Yes, FR and Roush and Whipple and whomever else will have 50 state legal calibrations, but it will be "limited" in whatever Ford approves for wide distribution. We can read that to mean, you'll be able to get the equivalent of the current Roush setup. Not terrible, but not exactly wide open to the aftermarket enthusiasts wanting big power or full control over how the car is customized/modded.

What this all tells, me, barring any sort of anonymous/hacker style breakthrough, the S550 will be the most desirable mustang on the market for full menu modifications. The EV's will reset the bar again, but they'll cost a fortune to do so and be even more limited/constrained by what you can and can't do to them.

I've said it before. Anything can be cracked with enough money, time, and resources. Outside of that, having the option to become a certified tuner with access to software tools is another potential option.

 

[MustangMac67]

I've said it before. Anything can be cracked with enough money, time, and resources. Outside of that, having the option to become a certified tuner with access to software tools is another potential option.

And how can I do that? Not to mention getting ford's approval.

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

The bitter irony of Ford's new Fully-Networked Vehicle (FNV) electrical architecture is that it touts cybersecurity as a main reason for its implementation - when, really, the best thing they could do for cybersecurity is NOT have a car connected to a nationwide or worldwide network.

This shit is like Sky Net for cars

THIS IS WHY I DRIVE A MODEL-T

 

[2BigPups]

Ford's Over the Air Updates and encrypted ECUs might be a hint of following BMW's lead for subscription based options. BMW Hopes the Bad Press Around its Subscription-Based Features Will Blow Over. $18 a month for heated seats, $80 a month for Apple car play, etc. Considering that all options that involve a control module can be turned off or on by an Over the Air Update, once you buy the vehicle, you're stuck. Pay up or do without.

A new concept, ransomware from the manufacturer.

 

[9secondko]

THIS IS WHY I DRIVE A MODEL-T

it’s why I have horses, leather sandals, and a hand drawn map.

 

[IceGamer]

Ford's Over the Air Updates and encrypted ECUs might be a hint of following BMW's lead for subscription based options. BMW Hopes the Bad Press Around its Subscription-Based Features Will Blow Over. $18 a month for heated seats, $80 a month for Apple car play, etc. Considering that all options that involve a control module can be turned off or on by an Over the Air Update, once you buy the vehicle, you're stuck. Pay up or do without.

A new concept, ransomware from the manufacturer.

Actually the BMW subscription is there to safe money... Just read what they said the system will be like: you can't option heated seats anymore as they are standard. However, you will have the option to activate them whenever you like.
Don't need heated seats in summer? Fine, safe $18 per month...

That system might be more expensive if you run a car for like 6-10+ years or if you live in an area where winters lasts onger but the majority of buyers can actually save quite a bit of money although it does not ean
feel like saving ;)

 

[2BigPups]

Actually the BMW subscription is there to safe money... Just read what they said the system will be like: you can't option heated seats anymore as they are standard. However, you will have the option to activate them whenever you like.
Don't need heated seats in summer? Fine, safe $18 per month...

That system might be more expensive if you run a car for like 6-10+ years or if you live in an area where winters lasts onger but the majority of buyers can actually save quite a bit of money although it does not ean
feel like saving ;)

In the old days prior to 2021, heated seats were either standard (no extra fee) or maybe a $200 option. $200/$18 per month = 11 months. So you save money if, big if, you don't want heated seats more than 3 months per year out of a 3 year lease. If you bought the car, yeah, good luck.

That's if the monthly fee is NOT tied into a yearly contract. LOL

 

[shogun32]

So why this insane concern about our cars.

remote disable of ECU and also your brakes. Oh, you didn't want to die today in a fireball caused by a bored hacker somewhere on the planet? Detroit and car manuf in general are ABYSMAL (some might argue criminally imcompetent) at security and that's not going to change.

With OTA you get such features such as SHA256 not matching and a signal sent to the ECU to disable startup the next time it's stopped. How helpful, eh?

The thing to do here is to de-solder the communications chips or kill their power. But that too will be circumvented by radio checks on ignition that will simply refuse to start unless the radio gets an ACK from a central location. Now imagine you're in the middle of nowhere where even 2G coverage was poor to nonexistent - now you have a brick that needs to be towed to the nearest telecom tower.

All this stuff is in keeping with the WEF' goal of "you will own nothing and be happy about it. And if we decide you don't get to move about, that's just too damn bad, subject." There isn't ONE SCINTILLA of justification that is rooted in enabling the customer to OWN and OPERATE his vehicle in any manner as he chooses.

 

[shogun32]

And how can I do that? Not to mention getting ford's approval.

it no doubt uses public key/certificates. As a tuner you apply for your signing cert and the ECU is hard-coded to only trust keys/certs that are signed by Ford's CA. That way you can have it check in periodically for a CRL (certificate revocation list) and if say Penske is a bad boy or thru their own carelessness loses control of their signing cert, it can be revoked and if your car has such a tune, you get bricked.

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