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What will it take to save the V8 Mustang?

Stonehauler

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What will it take to save the V8?

A miracle in the EU… They just banned ICE cars entirely from 2035 onward. Maybe there is still a chance that the calculation is modified so that synthetic gasoline can be considered but I doubt it.

That’s it. What a bunch of …
There are more than a million people working for retailers surrounding ICE cars. Most of those jobs will be gone comes 2035. Thank you EU… I which we would leave the EU like Britain did and do our own thing but then again there are enough “environmentalists” here in Germany that don’t care about facts but only about fascism and ideology…

https://www.politico.eu/article/european-parliament-votes-to-ban-combustion-engine-cars-from-2035/#:~:text=Lawmakers in the European Parliament,to clean up road transport.
well, according to a friend, Washington state says no new ICE cars after 2030, so...
 

LSchicago

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well, according to a friend, Washington state says no new ICE cars after 2030, so...
Well Ford is committed to build V8's at Windsor until 2040.
 

DemonGT

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I feel like Ford is smart enough to know that if they remove the v8 option they may as well just discontinue the Mustang altogether cause the amount of people that will abandon the Mustang will doom it.
 

LSchicago

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Yeah but that’s really for trucks. Highly unlikely we will see a V8 after the S650.
You never know. They do build the 5.0 and the 5.0 is an F150 engine too.
 

LSchicago

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I feel like Ford is smart enough to know that if they remove the v8 option they may as well just discontinue the Mustang altogether cause the amount of people that will abandon the Mustang will doom it.
I would have zero interest in a Mustang without a V8.
 

IPOGT

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I feel like Ford is smart enough to know that if they remove the v8 option they may as well just discontinue the Mustang altogether cause the amount of people that will abandon the Mustang will doom it.
I think the market will adapt. I wonder what folks were thinking while having had steam engines seeing these new gasoline cars coming. At some point, electric vehicles just become normal. I was impressed after getting an electric R/C 4 wheeler seeing what mods they make to the cars and what they are able to obtain. Seems like a simple matter of scale to apply similar on basic functions of an automobile.
In the end, all will change hate it as we might. People will still find a way to play with their cars and at some point that is all they’ll ever experience, so they’ll never think they missed anything. Otoh, maybe they’ll even do it better than we did. Who knows. I built a 1979 Firebird in 1989 thinking I’d never see another 435 horsepower car again in my lifetime never mind my Mach 1 or my GT. Really, WTF cares what happens as long as we can get gas and parts to keep ours as long as possible. :like: Be thankful, and don’t worry about it. Fear the self driving car. That’s something to be concerned about. I can’t imagine having no control and being a victim of a self driving car with a corrupt or out of date firmware revision. Being in or sharing the road with that is concerning to say the least.
 
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Mspider

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I feel like Ford is smart enough to know that if they remove the v8 option they may as well just discontinue the Mustang altogether cause the amount of people that will abandon the Mustang will doom it.
As someone in his 30s I grew up driving gas sports cars. It started with Japanese sports cars then moved into American V8 performance cars. So for me it just doesn't feel right to not have a V8 engine. The sound and feeling of the V8 is half the fun. Anything can be fast but it must also sound good.

I do believe the current generation of kids will never experience what I experienced and be ok with electric/hybrid engines more. A mustang without a V8 might no longer be marketed to us.
 

Nexus

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You never know. They do build the 5.0 and the 5.0 is an F150 engine too.
Said it before, start worrying when the V8 is NOT in the F-150.
The amount of V8s in the Mustang VS the F-150 is a drop in the bucket overall.

It's an easier sell when you can spread everything across the 2 vehicles and a solid reason why you won't see a different sized V8 in F-150 and the GT.
 

amk91

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I feel like Ford is smart enough to know that if they remove the v8 option they may as well just discontinue the Mustang altogether cause the amount of people that will abandon the Mustang will doom it.
I think the market will adapt. I wonder what folks were thinking while having had steam engines seeing these new gasoline cars coming. At some point, electric vehicles just become normal. I was impressed after getting an electric R/C 4 wheeler seeing what mods they make to the cars and what they are able to obtain. Seems like a simple matter of scale to apply similar on basic functions of an automobile.
In the end, all will change hate it as we might. People will still find a way to play with their cars and at some point that is all they’ll ever experience, so they’ll never think they missed anything. Otoh, maybe they’ll even do it better than we did. Who knows. I built a 1979 Firebird in 1989 thinking I’d never see another 435 horsepower car again in my lifetime never mind my Mach 1 or my GT. Really, WTF cares what happens as long i we can get gas and parts to keep ours as long as possible. :like: Be thankful, and don’t worry about it. Fear the self driving car. That’s something to be concerned about.
I am seeing S650 replacement on the same platform in 2029 as the EV Explorer and second generation Mach E. GE2.

Ford would have to extremely overcompensate, by designing the car to exotic levels. As the loss of a V8 would be more extreme, due to the associated character of the vehicle in question.

You could easily slap a higher displacement twin turbo six into the next-next 2029 Super Duty called P768 (FORD LEAK!) and the character change wouldn't be too much of a factor.

SDs are known more for their diesels. F-150 is a primarily Ecoboost V6 nameplate now. But for a Mustang?

A 2-door non-V8 might sell to a lot of people who can't swing a GT or Shelby version or are content with an Ecoboost/NA V6 for the looks, but the minute you repel the core enthusiasts, all you get is a bunch of talentless influencers and pretenders, keeping the product alive on the "scene"

It would be a substantial loss, hence why Ford is kicking the can down the road as long as possible and not forcing a switch to BEV only immediately. Unfortunately their concession was an all new ICE Mustang to be taken off the drawing board permanently.

To succeed the Coyote and Predator powered cars, is a tall order based on where the car got its image from. The era of 60s performance car married to a soul-stirring signature V8 exhaust note.

Ford would have market this car as a discounts alternative for European exotics, even harder than they do now and no longer rely just on its heritage. That's only how the nameplate would survive beyond the cancellation of the V8.

Make styling so expensive looking and feeling inside-out. Anything that still gives away the car is built to a price point, yet has no traditional V8 soundtrack, Ford can just forget it.

Mach E can get away with simplicity in being a CUV, but not the iconic lower riding car. Whether as 4 doors or two.

Only nasty alternative, is consolidating into next gen Mach E just being known as the only Mustang offering in 2029. (HELL TO THE NO)

Bill Ford would have to be in his grave or without any Ford stock to allow that happen, as he respects the Mach E, but he's been the lasting lifeline for the Mustang at the highest executive levels.

An EV Mustang can no longer rely on the same formula, which is "badass, but not too exotic looking."

It would have to make a Corvette C8 level huge leap in terms of notable improvement.

A BEV Mustang coupe would need to look like a concept car and have a very decent value proposition, to even get any consideration from me.

I'm only willing to tolerate certain justified cost cutting, provided the Mustang fits what I expect in the nameplate. A V8 and manual transmission or at the very, very, very, very least, one of the best auto-shifting transmissions in a RWD-biased performance car ever made with steering mounted paddles.

Take that away and offer an automatic only BEV, I better feel like I am in a discount Ford GT "on mute" or bye bye forever. I don't care about times changing, because if I have to lose something in the process, then Ford needs to more than make up for it significantly and make the car an objective super knockout.

Simply put, a BEV Mustang successor is going to be too different to not demand the highest standards, to make up for the loss of a V8, offered for a good 60 years. They cannot offer an S550 with a BEV power train and expect people to buy it, no questions asked.

Either a design which looks very tastefully into the future and is cleaner than the cleanest hospital operating table. Or a retro design, which leans strongly on the pre-1970 styling. No corners cut on anything.

Reinventing a legacy nameplate with a new formula by abandoning traditional aspects of it, warrants putting out a very remarkable effort. I would keep my V8 and get one of those, if it meets my standards. Now...

I will definitely go into politics if there are any attempts to ban EXISTING V8s from the roads, if it makes owning an S550 or S650 too impossible and I am not even exactly the most conservative person. There's a limit to my patience though.
 

amk91

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And just to reiterate, if Bill Ford wasn't there, some CEO would have eventually messed up the nameplate or outright replaced it with a CUV by now. Hackett more than anything, because he wanted to cancel the coupe most likely and made S650 into a compromise, instead of the all new car both Mark Fields and Bill Ford had in the cards.
 

Hack

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Electricity is no more dangerous than gasoline. Both will kill you given the chance, and both will kill you if you do not respect it.
I disagree. It's not that easy to kill yourself with gas. Electric all you have to do is touch the wrong thing and you are dead, dead dead. You can throw a match at a puddle of gas and not even get a fire, much less an explosion.

I am an electrical engineer. My area is utility scale power (hundreds of thousands of volts) and analyzing accidents and events on the system. I have seen people die and maimed by accident just doing their job. Trust me, I respect just how dangerous electric power can be. I've worked on electric cars and even designed and built a solar powered car when I was at university, with my project specifically being the power conversion systems going between the battery, solar cells, and motor.
Based on what you said in the first paragraph I'm not sure you really respect the danger of electrical power.

Gasoline is also dangerous. People have died and been maimed on accident when working with that stuff. I've worked on cars most of my life and I have gone to school to learn more, such as air conditioning system, engine rebuilding, etc. I have tuned engines, and I know experienced mechanics that have lost fingers getting their hands too close to moving items, yet for some things, you must work on the engine while it's running. A fuel leak on a hot engine can be an absolute disaster.
I have owned my '70 Mustang since the early 90s. That car had a fuel leak for a number of years. I can be a procrastinator at times. The leak was at the connection to the carburetor and it leaked gas on top of the engine. I was lucky it never started a fire. The gas leaking on top of the engine just evaporated and dissolved some paint. I agree it could have been a disaster.

I agree you have to work on an engine when it's running to do certain things. At least with older cars there are some things. However, it's super obvious which areas you shouldn't touch when a gas engine is running. And you can hear and see that the engine is running.

Look at a random cable and tell me whether it will kill you to touch it. There's no way to know just by looking at it.

People tend to minimize the danger they are used to . You and most other modders are used to the dangers of gasoline and internal combustion engines. You know the systems and you are aware of the dangers and take steps to mitigate them. Once electric motors become more prevalent and we get to know those systems, I guarantee that you will soon see people ripping out motors, adding in high performance capacitor systems, changing out the power converters, maybe even changing out entire battery systems to go to a higher voltage system.
I somewhat agree with your first statement. You are so used to electrical power that you think working with it is no big deal. I think it's a big deal. I wonder what kind of issues we will have with vibration rubbing through cable insulation after the first generation of EVs start to get old. Maybe the batteries will all be worn before that happens.

If the world degrades to the point where I have to own and drive an EV I will do what I have to do. People already are messing with EVs and customizing them. However, that doesn't mean I think the danger of working on an EV becomes less just because someone else is working on them. People work on high voltage electrical lines all the time, but I still know enough to stay away from them.

What you are experiencing now is apprehension about not knowing these systems. Yes, you will need to be careful. Yes, you will need need to take steps to keep you safe, but these will be no more sensible then the precautions you already take when doing work on your current vehicle. The only difference will be which precautions you take. Some will be the same, others will be new.
I think you are partially correct here. I don't really have apprehension, because I have no need to work on an EV now or in the immediate future. But the thought of working on an EV does scare me, because it's very dangerous.

And I will probably leave that stuff to a trained mechanic if it becomes necessary (for instance if my wife decides to purchase an EV). In that case she will be on her own with any repairs.

On, and 12 V is more than enough to kill, maim, or injure you in the right circumstances, especially with a big battery holding a lot of charge. If you are stupid or careless, it doesn't take 400V to kill you.
400V will kill you in a lot more circumstances. Just like it's possible for gas to explode, but unlikely - it's possible but very unlikely for 12V to kill you.
 

BoostRabbitGT

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As far as sound goes, has everything been done with both cross- and flat-plane V8s? I feel like to save it one last time, someone would have to make an absolute swan song of a V8 in terms of both sound and performance. Something never heard and done before that outperforms everything in its class and even outside it. That said I'd absolutely be down for a flat-V8 that sounds completely different from the Voodoo but still screams like a Ferrari at high RPMs. But if it the Mustang becomes a niche vehicle that only the rich can afford it, will it no longer be a Mustang in terms of vehicular purpose?
 

IPOGT

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I disagree. It's not that easy to kill yourself with gas. Electric all you have to do is touch the wrong thing and you are dead, dead dead. You can throw a match at a puddle of gas and not even get a fire, much less an explosion.



Based on what you said in the first paragraph I'm not sure you really respect the danger of electrical power.



I have owned my '70 Mustang since the early 90s. That car had a fuel leak for a number of years. I can be a procrastinator at times. The leak was at the connection to the carburetor and it leaked gas on top of the engine. I was lucky it never started a fire. The gas leaking on top of the engine just evaporated and dissolved some paint. I agree it could have been a disaster.

I agree you have to work on an engine when it's running to do certain things. At least with older cars there are some things. However, it's super obvious which areas you shouldn't touch when a gas engine is running. And you can hear and see that the engine is running.

Look at a random cable and tell me whether it will kill you to touch it. There's no way to know just by looking at it.



I somewhat agree with your first statement. You are so used to electrical power that you think working with it is no big deal. I think it's a big deal. I wonder what kind of issues we will have with vibration rubbing through cable insulation after the first generation of EVs start to get old. Maybe the batteries will all be worn before that happens.

If the world degrades to the point where I have to own and drive an EV I will do what I have to do. People already are messing with EVs and customizing them. However, that doesn't mean I think the danger of working on an EV becomes less just because someone else is working on them. People work on high voltage electrical lines all the time, but I still know enough to stay away from them.



I think you are partially correct here. I don't really have apprehension, because I have no need to work on an EV now or in the immediate future. But the thought of working on an EV does scare me, because it's very dangerous.

And I will probably leave that stuff to a trained mechanic if it becomes necessary (for instance if my wife decides to purchase an EV). In that case she will be on her own with any repairs.



400V will kill you in a lot more circumstances. Just like it's possible for gas to explode, but unlikely - it's possible but very unlikely for 12V to kill you.
Low voltage was considered “no big deal”. Lessons learned, it is now state licensed in most states with most requirements basically the same as a master electrical contractor less 3 phase systems.
 
 
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