How well do you think the S650 will sell?

[ChitownStang]

I do not believe it will do well, it's just not a good looking front end. Honestly have no interest in it at all! When I saw the 15gt come out, I had to have it, this one does not excite me at all.

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[MustangMac67]

Backlash? Everything I've read shows massive interest and support of it...

Except for the vacuum cleaner memes

 

[shogun32]

EV's are the future whether we like it or not.

that is the current, politically favored "fact-of-the-moment". Winds change and the bloom is off the EV mania. When economics is no longer ignored, unsustainable fads like EV will bite the dust, hard. There ARE limited use cases where EV have a role. But it's FAR FAR away from being universal.

And the backpeddling is already afoot.

the EU has now "drafted a plan allowing sales of new cars with internal combustion engines that run only on climate neutral e-fuels", according to Reuters. The plan comes as part of a compromise proposal with Germany over the existing 2035 ban plans.

 

[Grabber_GT]

I do not believe it will do well, it's just not a good looking front end. Honestly have no interest in it at all! When I saw the 15gt come out, I had to have it, this one does not excite me at all.

I see the complete opposite. It is better than the S550 to me. When the S550 came out it looked too much like a Fusion in the front. The refresh was better, but I still didn't want one. The S650 is a cleaner/more aggressive design, and I wanted one from the first time I saw it...so opinions on this aspect will differ.

 

[Grabber_GT]

that is the current, politically favored "fact-of-the-moment". Winds change and the bloom is off the EV mania. When economics is no longer ignored, unsustainable fads like EV will bite the dust, hard. There ARE limited use cases where EV have a role. But it's FAR FAR from being universal.

Yup...

 

[Grabber_GT]

Backlash? Everything I've read shows massive interest and support of it.

You must be reading some EV forum drivel then. Read ANY of the Mopar forums, check the Mopar groups, etc, etc. They ALL HATE the Charger EV and it fake sounds....

An EV Charger with two ICE engines is an absolute waste of resources and I would expect any ICE engine to not be of the performance variety.

Nope. They both are the new Hurricane inline 6 turbos. 400~ and 500~ hp.

It makes no sense $$ wise. EV's performance will crush any and all ICE engine put out by any manufacturer. There are too many rules in place to choke ICE motors.

Enthusiasts don't just care about acceleration, which is all EV's have going for them (at least until the battery loses charge) from that standpoint. They are very heavy, which hurts handling and braking performance (especially on longer stints). Another huge thing is they have no pleasing sound. A HUGE part of the car ownership thing with enthusiasts is sound. Hearing an ICE go though the gears and rev is something no EV can ever replace.

 

[Grabber_GT]

Except for the vacuum cleaner memes

I was gonna say this, but you beat me too it lol...

 

[dfanucci]

You must be reading some EV forum drivel then. Read ANY of the Mopar forums, check the Mopar groups, etc, etc. They ALL HATE the Charger EV and it fake sounds....

Would this exact place be a place of "drivel" as well. You're basing everything you say out of emotion, not logic.

Nope. They both are the new Hurricane inline 6 turbos. 400~ and 500~ hp.

You can't have it both ways. Inline 6 turbos sound nothing like a V8. Folks like you scream sound of muscle car, yet in the same breath ignore that an inline 6 turbo sounds like an overpowered vacuum. Dodge slapping something that sounds like an overpowered Subaru is not a "Muscle Car". Again, you can't have it both ways.

Enthusiasts don't just care about acceleration, which is all EV's have going for them (at least until the battery loses charge) from that standpoint. They are very heavy, which hurts handling and braking performance (especially on longer stints). Another huge thing is they have no pleasing sound. A HUGE part of the car ownership thing with enthusiasts is sound. Hearing an ICE go though the gears and rev is something no EV can ever replace.

No matter how much you slam gears in an inline 6 turbo, it's not going to sound like a Muscle Car. I'll agree that EV's are heavier, but the market on these "enthusiasts" you speak of is extremely low. Enthusiasts are only part of the market. If I know that a car I'm buying which happens to be an EV can wipe the fucking grin off your face in a heartbeat, that's all that really needs to be said regarding EV's vs ICE. ICE will always have a place in the world, it's not going anywhere, but "performance cars" are not in the tea leaves as sad as that may be. I don't want them going anywhere, but it's gonna happen...

 

[Bikeman315]

Would this exact place be a place of "drivel" as well. You're basing everything you say out of emotion, not logic.
Exactly. Enthusiast Forums like this are only a very, very, small (but vocal) part of the buying public. I'm guessing the new EV Charger/Challenger will do reasonably well for a limited market product.

You can't have it both ways. Inline 6 turbos sound nothing like a V8. Folks like you scream sound of muscle car, yet in the same breath ignore that an inline 6 turbo sounds like an overpowered vacuum. Dodge slapping something that sounds like an overpowered Subaru is not a "Muscle Car". Again, you can't have it both ways.

I'm not sure why we constantly label what muscle cars are and are not. To me "muscle" and "fast" go hand in hand. Back in the 60's that meant a V8 with all of its glorious sounds (although there were some later exceptions). Today it could mean a turbo four, or six. Also any combination with a hybrid powertrain. We are in the 21sat century. Traditionalism is dead.
[/QUOTE]

ICE will always have a place in the world, it's not going anywhere, but "performance cars" are not in the tea leaves as sad as that may be. I don't want them going anywhere, but it's gonna happen...

Fortunately for us the opposite is actually true. There will always be "performance" cars. They may be ICE, hybrid, or EV. ICE may have its place in the world but not in our world. Unfortunately it does have a limited future.

 

[Grabber_GT]

Would this exact place be a place of "drivel" as well. You're basing everything you say out of emotion, not logic.

Those groups I refer to are the buying base though. Mopar people are pretty loyal...and they have made it pretty clear the Charger EV is NOT what they want...go look in those groups yourself.

You can't have it both ways. Inline 6 turbos sound nothing like a V8. Folks like you scream sound of muscle car, yet in the same breath ignore that an inline 6 turbo sounds like an overpowered vacuum. Dodge slapping something that sounds like an overpowered Subaru is not a "Muscle Car". Again, you can't have it both ways.

I never said anything about a "muscle car sound", so don't misquote me. As there are plenty of inline 6's that sound great. Just because it doesn't sound like a V8 doesn't mean it doesn't sound good. I owned an M3 with an inline 6 that sounded fantastic...ever hear an old Jag E Type with a inline 6? They sound glorious...

No matter how much you slam gears in an inline 6 turbo, it's not going to sound like a Muscle Car. I'll agree that EV's are heavier, but the market on these "enthusiasts" you speak of is extremely low. Enthusiasts are only part of the market. If I know that a car I'm buying which happens to be an EV can wipe the fucking grin off your face in a heartbeat, that's all that really needs to be said regarding EV's vs ICE. ICE will always have a place in the world, it's not going anywhere, but "performance cars" are not in the tea leaves as sad as that may be. I don't want them going anywhere, but it's gonna happen...

Again, who said it has to sound like a muscle car? There are plenty of non V8 ICE engines that sound fantastic. On a side note, unlike many who bitch, I've actually driven a few EV's. Including a friends Tesla Model 3 Performance on a weekend trip (500 miles), and anothers Lucid. They were completely boring and soul-less vehicles. Too appliance like, definitely not for me.

We can agree to disagree, this is just my opinion. Not looking to offend if you like EV's, as that is your choice.

 

[Grabber_GT]

ICE may have its place in the world but not in our world. Unfortunately it does have a limited future.

I wouldn't worry about this. ICE isn't going anywhere. I think the future will have multiple forms of vehicle power. ICE, electric, hydrogen, etc. There are too many different factors in various countries and places to rely on non ICE powered vehicles.

Some EU countries are realizing that EV's are not the cure to the worlds problems, and backtracking on some upcoming laws (see Germany). Also many countries and rural places will never have the infrastructure EV's need for charging and such.

Plus you have Toyota literally this month saying electric is not the answer (they are going hydrogen/hybrid/ICE). Also you have companies (like Porsche and Shell) working on synthetic gasoline with super low emissions as well...

 

[dfanucci]

We can agree to disagree, this is just my opinion. Not looking to offend if you like EV's, as that is your choice.

Absolutely no offense taken at all. If I had my way, EV's would be an addition to the market, not a takeover like I think is gonna happen. I'll take a V8 powered Pony over an EV any day, if they could get the power equaled to what an EV can push. Sadly, the govt regs will never let that happen.

 

[Skye]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/22/ford-to-break-out-ev-business.html

https://www.ford.com/finance/investor-center/

Ford will be reporting numbers tomorrow, in a new format.

Previously, Ford reported by region. Now, Ford will report by division.

 

[Hack]

I think the new car looks better in the front than S550. The tail looks good, but not as beautiful as the S550. In general I think the restyle could generate some sales. If other parts of the car fit what I wanted, I would definitely buy the S650 over an S550 based on exterior styling alone.

Prices are higher, but used cars are also really high priced right now. I think high used car prices have the potential to generate more new car sales. I might be wrong here - personally I'm standing pat because I like what I have and I don't think a change is worth the money.

I don't like some current features like DI and the MT gearing, but I think most people don't care. I doubt that will have an impact. The electronic brakes - it will depend on reviews and how well they actually work. If they are quirky, that could kill everything.

The HP numbers will generate some sales.

The DH will generate sales - depends on how many Ford makes. If I can find them at local dealers and drive one, I might get hooked. But if they are relegated to friends of the dealership or people who are willing to pay ADMs, there's no chance I will own one.

I realize the interior is polarizing, but I think the digital dash might help sales. I think it looks good. This is another item where it really depends on how well it is implemented. If it's fast, looks good and works great, Ford could do ok. I do think the lack of physical controls might hurt sales significantly. Just like the electronic braking it could be a deal killer for quite a few people.

All in all, I think Ford will sell as many as they make as long as they don't have QC issues or other functionality problems that cause their reputation to fall.

 

[phantom214]

With the rather extreme price increases at least here in Europe and taxation the EU part will for sure be much much less, that is my guess. Obviously this will have impact on the sales figures globally

The price is going to increase in EU? by how much?
In Korea, most dealers say that S650 will be $10,000 US more expensive than current S550 GT Premium PP1 selling here. For that much money we can buy used M3, M4 here...

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