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MustangMac67

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I have been wondering this for quite a while. Every new generation of the mustang has seen a large boost in sales compared to the generation before. Considering that last year was record low sales, and I do not expect 2023 to sell much more.

S650 Mustang How well do you think the S650 will sell? Screenshot 2023-03-21 8.23.41 AM



From 2014 to 2015 we saw about 40k more sales. If that were to stay the same, we would have about 80 to 90k sales. That would be the worst selling generation of mustang, questioning whether a new generation was the right choice. I know it was, but still...

I do not expect the S650 to sell more than 100-110k. There is one way it can have better sales than 2015, and that would be if it attracts all of the people who were to buy the challenger and camaro.
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BrianJ77

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With Dodge cancelling the Challenger and Chevrolet allegedly cancelling the Camaro I think sales for the S650 will be up for the foreseeable future. Opportunity for conquest sales for Ford.
 

Grabber_GT

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It will sell well, for what it is.

Sales for pony cars will never be like they were due to many folks in this country being CUV/SUV crazy, and with people who have families feeling the need to have something with more space.

Most Mustang owners I would say don't have large families, or use them as a second car. So that limits sales. Ford I assume knows this, and should plan for sales accordingly. There is still plenty of profit to be made...

But, with the Challenger done after '23, and the Camaro looking to go the same route, it will gain sales from those two going bye bye. So who knows what the numbers will be...
 
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Tommy Nokes

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I definitely think it will be attracting the challenger and camaro fans. I owned 2 camaros and my GT order will be put in Monday.

Two additional factors to consider:
- How many can Ford produce. Contraints on parts, chips, etc could influence sales.
- The economy. 2023 is going to be a disaster with layoffs and rising interest rates to name a few. And the recent banking situation is not helping matters.

Also, I think Ford will be ok with lower units but a higher bottom line through margin increases.
 
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MustangMac67

MustangMac67

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Last year, the pony car segment sold 127,278 units. That is mustang, camaro, and challenger sales combined. I think that the mustang could pull that or more off thinking about it now, if there are no production and supply issues
 


Grabber_GT

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Last year, the pony car segment sold 127,278 units. That is mustang, camaro, and challenger sales combined. I think that the mustang could pull that or more off thinking about it now, if there are no production and supply issues
While that sounds great, I think it's optimistic with the economy. I'd say 75,000 or so, which is great for a pony car/muscle car in this day and age!
 

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Need to take into account that with the s550 Ford started to officially sell Mustangs in EU and so on.

With the rather extreme price increases at least here in Europe and taxation the EU part will for sure be much much less, that is my guess. Obviously this will have impact on the sales figures globally
 

62Telecaster

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I think it's going to underwhelm compared to the S550's initial sales figures; Ford literally took the same failed strategy with the S650 that Chevy did with the current vs last gen Camaro and I think people will largely have the same reaction...too similar visually, too expensive overall to justify. I feel like this one is going to be a bit of a fish out of water compared to some of the electrified/hybrid offerings from Dodge and potentially Chevy as well SHOULD those vehicles become media darlings and a hit with the public. Ford likely whiffed on their strategy and will be a bit late to the party so to speak. We'll see, but this may be a bit interesting to see how this all goes down and if Ford can somehow make Chevy's failed strategy work.
 

Dub347sbf

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It's not going hit S550 numbers no matter what they do. The segment is shrinking, not near as popular as it was in 2014. Regardless, I bet the numbers are boosted over recent years. With some of the numbers I've seen the dealerships getting though, I hope that it ends up being under promised and over delivered. I can't believe the low amounts some are getting for 18 months.
 

dfanucci

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It wont touch the numbers of the 550. There is not enough meat on the bone with the 650 as far as price/performance. 60k is steep for a well optioned pony car (and the DH is overpriced no matter how you stack it). Add the lack of cars the dealers look like they will be getting, and the foundation is shaky.

My personal opinion is Ford choked this release. *My opinion*
 

IceGamer

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I think it's going to underwhelm compared to the S550's initial sales figures; Ford literally took the same failed strategy with the S650 that Chevy did with the current vs last gen Camaro and I think people will largely have the same reaction...too similar visually, too expensive overall to justify. I feel like this one is going to be a bit of a fish out of water compared to some of the electrified/hybrid offerings from Dodge and potentially Chevy as well SHOULD those vehicles become media darlings and a hit with the public. Ford likely whiffed on their strategy and will be a bit late to the party so to speak. We'll see, but this may be a bit interesting to see how this all goes down and if Ford can somehow make Chevy's failed strategy work.
I totally agree. Sales will be down by quite a bit compared to 2014. Main reason is the lackluster refresh they call S650. The S550 was a major overhaul although not entirely new. It was the first Mustang sold internationally and the first with an independent rear suspension. Besides, its design really was/is a homerun. In addition, the car was still very much affordable for a vast majority of potential buyers. Although the first Mustang to crush the 50K barrier it did offer quite a lot for the money.
The S650 on the other hand seems like an overall improvement compared to the S550 but offers almost nothing that justifies trading in a S550. Almost like modern smartphones… Yeah, the newest iPhone/Samsung what so ever is nice and obviously better than the outgoing model but is it worth the money? Does it offer an entirely new (driving) experience?

I do however believe that profits will got up although sales might not ;)
 
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MustangMac67

MustangMac67

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Need to take into account that with the s550 Ford started to officially sell Mustangs in EU and so on.

With the rather extreme price increases at least here in Europe and taxation the EU part will for sure be much much less, that is my guess. Obviously this will have impact on the sales figures globally
The numbers I am quoting are for US sales only
 
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If Ford keeps with the higher msrp, higher margin - lower volume sales model there's the answer. Record profits from fewer units.
 

OppoLock

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Totally different climate with different economic factors and precedents to follow.

The S550 was a picture-perfect execution of factors both stemming from product, timing, and markets; there aren’t comparable opportunities available to improve upon, but the formula will still work just as well.

First, understand that it’s a lifestyle product. Everyone is feeling pressure as a consumer, with the basic costs of living, the rising costs of gas, and stagnant wages putting a barrier between the middle class and said products. Definitely a barrier that didn’t exist 7-8 years ago.

That being said, there isn’t any direct competition. Not for people who want to buy a new car with a naturally-aspirated V8 OR a manual for that matter. That alone counts for WAY more than what any forum geek here thinks that’s focused on the “oh it should’ve had 12 more horsepower” or “why couldn’t they change it up more (first, throw out specifics of what that would look like and how)” or “it has a screen yuck (when everyone that’s not us is buying up screen-focused cars left and right).”

The move to EV would’ve been awful. That move is bound to come and not by choice. Good luck to Dodge and its Challenger which will have to throw every gimmick in the book at that thing to differentiate it from every other copycat EV driving experience. Ford made the right move by capitalizing on being the Last Man Standing on this front.

And people are talking about the lack of reported improvements, but understand that ICE platforms have reached a close peak and are, by all practical measures, MORE than enough for 99% of the public. In fact, that iPhone analogy is perfect. What more do you want from your phone that you’d actually make use of in everyday life? The S550 was like the iPhone 4 or whatever one made that first big breakthrough design. Those same leaps aren’t available nor do they make any sense given who’s buying these things and how they’re using them.

In this case, the S650 literally only has to execute on the same formula the S550 created while tightening up some deficiencies. It’ll sell simply because it exists and the technology, looks, and driving experience will matter WAY more than the numbers and technical improvements at this point.

We have no idea about what the supplier logistics look like. There probably isn’t a single person on this forum informed enough to knowhow current EU regs will affect international sales. We know that it’s more expensive but we also have studies showing that people are money-retarded and overextending themselves through financing, so that might not even be an issue.

What we do know is that, to the lay-person, it’s just another Mustang and it will be the only pony car available when it goes on sale. I bet it’ll do as well as any other Mustang iteration would do given the same circumstances.
 
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IceGamer

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Totally different climate with different economic factors and precedents to follow.

The S550 was a picture-perfect execution of factors both stemming from product, timing, and markets; there aren’t comparable opportunities available to improve upon, but the formula will still work just as well.

First, understand that it’s a lifestyle product. Everyone is feeling pressure as a consumer, with the basic costs of living, the rising costs of gas, and stagnant wages putting a barrier between the middle class and said products. Definitely a barrier that didn’t exist 7-8 years ago.

That being said, there isn’t any direct competition. Not for people who want to buy a new car with a naturally-aspirated V8 OR a manual for that matter. That alone counts for WAY more than what any forum geek here thinks that’s focused on the “oh it should’ve had 12 more horsepower” or “why couldn’t they change it up more (first, throw out specifics of what that would look like and how)” or “it has a screen yuck (when everyone that’s not us is buying up screen-focused cars left and right).”

The move to EV would’ve been awful. That move is bound to come and not by choice. Good luck to Dodge and its Challenger which will have to throw every gimmick in the book at that thing to differentiate it from every other copycat EV driving experience. Ford made the right move by capitalizing on being the Last Man Standing on this front.

And people are talking about the lack of reported improvements, but understand that ICE platforms have reached a close peak and are, by all practical measures, MORE than enough for 99% of the public. In fact, that iPhone analogy is perfect. What more do you want from your phone that you’d actually make use of in everyday life? The S550 was like the iPhone 4 or whatever one made that first big breakthrough design. Those same leaps aren’t available nor do they make any sense given who’s buying these things and how they’re using them.

In this case, the S650 literally only has to execute on the same formula the S550 created while tightening up some deficiencies. It’ll sell simply because it exists and the technology, looks, and driving experience will matter WAY more than the numbers and technical improvements at this point.

We have no idea about what the supplier logistics look like. There probably isn’t a single person on this forum informed enough to knowhow current EU regs will affect international sales. We know that it’s more expensive but we also have studies showing that people are money-retarded and overextending themselves through financing, so that might not even be an issue.

What we do know is that, to the lay-person, it’s just another Mustang and it will be the only pony car available when it goes on sale. I bet it’ll do as well as any other Mustang iteration would do given the same circumstances.
It literally always was the original pony car ;)

But aside from that I do agree with some of your arguments. The S650 will sell and most buyers aren’t enthusiasts like us. Most buyers will appreciate the screens. That being said I think most would still prefer integrated screens if they had a choice. The S650 will sell more units than the current one for sure but will they be that much higher as in 2014? Probably not.

I do as well agree partially on EVs as a EV Mustang would’ve come too early. However, you’re saying that Dodge has to try very hard to make the EV Challenger compelling. Isn’t that what Ford should’ve done in order to make the S650 as compelling as possible? Isn’t that what we as customers want every company to do? To do their best so that we can get the best product?! The EV Challenger can very easily outshine the S650 in the years to come. Just imagine they’re fixing the linear acceleration, offer internal and external noise (no speakers but something similar their concept offers but more V8 like) and a top notch interior… The car drives almost like a gas guzzler, sounds like one and offers mind blowing acceleration with its 1000+ hp… If they can pull off something like that EV muscle cars will be a thing and Dodge is already very close to finalizing such a product. They have to because no one is interested in just another EV that looks like a muscle car but drives like any other EV.

Ford on the other hand knew that they would most likely be the only company offering something like a traditional ‘muscle car’. Why going the extra mile when there is no need to? The S650 will sell somewhat OK-ish, generate enough profit to keep the name relevant but that’s about it.

I think that if the S650 would’ve offered something truly new to the Mustang formula that that would boost sales by a lot. Why not offer some of Ford crates engines as a standard option… Pair the increased displacement with AWD on off you go… Looks are subjective – numbers aren’t.
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