Good news for Mustang via Jim Farley: ICE business will focus around Bronco & Mustang

[Stonehauler]

Do you not realize what brake fade is? It has nothing to do with engine power or power loss....its from the brakes not being able to cool down enough and it looses clamping force....generally boiling the brake fluid and glazing/destroying pads

Yes, I do know what brake fade is, which is why I said what I did.

EVs turn motors into generators during braking, so as long as you can handle the electrical energy being generated and stash it somewhere, the brake pads will not be engaging much, if at all during braking. This process is call regenerative braking.

That's why I said transferring that energy into a large capacitor which can handle a lot of energy being dumped into it. Thus, you are not "wasting" energy by turning kinetic energy into heat via the brakes, but taking that energy and storing back into a battery/capacitor system. Thus, the brakes are not being used as much, reducing the possibility of brake fade from repeated frequent usage of brakes during a spirited drive in the twisties.

Sponsored

 

[ramirj2]

ummm....

The Tesla model S Plaid is an "enthusiasts" dream, faster than an M5 around the track, and down the 1/4 mile. All without being a "sports car"

Honestly, if you want performance, electric wins over gas every time. That's because your engine throws about 2/3rds of the energy generated by it away as heat. Electrical motors can not only use energy more efficiently, but they can use it to recover that energy as well. Brake fade? Not really. Most of the energy of braking goes back into the battery, or if needed, capacitors. Then that energy can be immediately used to launch you out the other side of that curve.

yes, there are a few drawbacks to EVs, but not in the performance area.

Eventually we will have accessible EV sport cars. The Plaid is show of force exercise in that direction but for now battery packs are too heavy and although it will handle well because of the center of gravity, Brakes will fade quickly and it is too big. Maybe that rumored hybrid Mustang could be an answer if it retains the V8 for the rear wheels and assist it with the 2 electric motors making it AWD and just have a small battery pack to feed the electric motors like the AMG's are heading.

 

[theruleslawyer]

EVs turn motors into generators during braking, so as long as you can handle the electrical energy being generated and stash it somewhere, the brake pads will not be engaging much, if at all during braking. This process is call regenerative braking.

That's why I said transferring that energy into a large capacitor which can handle a lot of energy being dumped into it. Thus, you are not "wasting" energy by turning kinetic energy into heat via the brakes, but taking that energy and storing back into a battery/capacitor system. Thus, the brakes are not being used as much, reducing the possibility of brake fade from repeated frequent usage of brakes during a spirited drive in the twisties.

Instead you are taking that and heating the battery instead. EVs are great for light use performance or a hot lap but are pretty limited for sustained performance. Everything ive seen on the plaid mentions is is way underbraked for the track despite putting down a good hot lap.

 

[IceGamer]

Instead you are taking that and heating the battery instead. EVs are great for light use performance or a hot lap but are pretty limited for sustained performance. Everything ive seen on the plaid mentions is is way underbraked for the track despite putting down a good hot lap.

But then again how many people track their car regularly? People who buy Mustangs in the EU are primarily interested in cruising around. Nobody cares about drag races here and tracking a standard Mustang GT isn’t a good thing either. Maybe with PP2 but there are still better options on the market… If I were primarily interested in racing I wouldn’t opt for a Mustang but rather any of the Porsche GTs.

 

[Stonehauler]

Instead you are taking that and heating the battery instead. EVs are great for light use performance or a hot lap but are pretty limited for sustained performance. Everything ive seen on the plaid mentions is is way underbraked for the track despite putting down a good hot lap.

Which is why I said the good designs will use capacitors in conjunction with batteries, which are designed specifically to handle that sort of sort of inrush current. Able to absorb large amounts of energy quickly, then provide it back just as quickly. Besides, battery packs can absorb and supply tremendous amounts of power as is.

 

[theruleslawyer]

Which is why I said the good designs will use capacitors in conjunction with batteries, which are designed specifically to handle that sort of sort of inrush current. Able to absorb large amounts of energy quickly, then provide it back just as quickly. Besides, battery packs can absorb and supply tremendous amounts of power as is.

Just google how Teslas are currently doing at track days. It may be a solvable problem, but at this point that is theoretical. ICE cars with track endurance is very much a solved problem.

 

[GT Premi]

ummm....

The Tesla model S Plaid is an "enthusiasts" dream, faster than an M5 around the track, and down the 1/4 mile. All without being a "sports car"

Honestly, if you want performance, electric wins over gas every time. That's because your engine throws about 2/3rds of the energy generated by it away as heat. Electrical motors can not only use energy more efficiently, but they can use it to recover that energy as well. Brake fade? Not really. Most of the energy of braking goes back into the battery, or if needed, capacitors. Then that energy can be immediately used to launch you out the other side of that curve.

yes, there are a few drawbacks to EVs, but not in the performance area.

A GT500 is heavy too, but plenty of fun in the twisties. The Tesla's are pretty well balanced and handle surprising well especially the model S. It is really nice to know going forward, at least in the near future, we will still have a choice. Everyone can get what they want.

I would love to see where you guys figure a Model S is good around a track, especially one beating an M5. Everything I've seen and read about it shows that it is cumbersome around corners and can't brake for squat, thanks to its pavement cracking 5,000+ lbs weight.

Do you know how regenerative braking works?

Do you? You know regenerative braking generates lots of heat which reduces the effectiveness of the regenerative braking. Regenerative braking is like a snake eating its own tail; it's being subsisted, but it's also killing itself.

 

[Bikeman315]

I would love to see where you guys figure a Model S is good around a track, especially one beating an M5. Everything I've seen and read about it shows that it is cumbersome around corners and can't brake for squat, thanks to its pavement cracking 5,000+ lbs weight.

Certainly not faster than a new M5 ( honestly what is? ). But at 7:35 faster than a Taycan and I think that really says something.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alista...ew-ev-nurburgring-lap-record/?sh=4f5ea86d78fc

https://www.supercars.net/blog/top-nurburgting-times/

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36607023/2022-bmw-m5-cs-nurburgring-lap-time/

 

[Stonehauler]

Willow Springs
2022 M5 - 1:28.76
2022 CT5 Blackwing - 1:28:07
2021 Model S Plaid - 1:27.78

Driven by Randy Probst
See the Results at time 21:09

So yeah, faster by a full second than the M5. That's what 1020 usable HP does...

 

[theruleslawyer]

Willow Springs
2022 M5 - 1:28.76
2022 CT5 Blackwing - 1:28:07
2021 Model S Plaid - 1:27.78

Driven by Randy Probst
See the Results at time 21:09

So yeah, faster by a full second than the M5. That's what 1020 usable HP does...

Sure, but what is it doing by the end of a 20min session? How about the last session of the day? Its great at magazine racing for sure.

 

[Stonehauler]

Simply put...to those not looking for a specific experience (like you obviously are), EVs can put more power down, are more reliable, and if they are designed for it, can probably outperform most performance cars out there. That's because they have innate low centers of gravity (battery pack is on the bottom of the car), can easily be built in a 50/50 weight distribution, and they can still use all the other tricks that manufacturers use to build a performance car.

I love ICE vehicles. I like big power, and I make regular long distance trips in my vehicles. Sometimes it's in a car, other times in a truck, sometimes towing something behind the truck. This is something that EVs can't do...YET.

However, once we can get a EV that can get a 3-400 mile range with a recharge time of 15-20 minutes, EVs are going to rule the roost. No, it's not pit stop fast, but 20 minutes is a reasonable timeframe for long distance travel when you factor in restroom breaks and getting food. Also, sooner or later, manufacturers will start making performance EVs for the masses, and other manufacturers will start to design aftermarket parts for EVs. This will include full motor swaps, energy management systems, different battery systems, etc.

EVs are not the end of performance vehicles. In fact, I suspect that they will be the next golden era of performance.

 

[dfanucci]

EVs can put more power down, are more reliable, and if they are designed for it, can probably outperform most performance cars out there.

While I'm pretty much in agreement with the power statement, the word is still out on reliability (see consumer reports regarding EV's and reliability or visit any Tesla/Jag/Porsche board. Folks are really quick to be jumping on the EV train, but until prices come waaaaay down on any type of "performance" EV, the sales are going to be low and folks will still look to ICE. Just my opinion...

 

[GT Premi]

Willow Springs
2022 M5 - 1:28.76
2022 CT5 Blackwing - 1:28:07
2021 Model S Plaid - 1:27.78

Driven by Randy Probst
See the Results at time 21:09

So yeah, faster by a full second than the M5. That's what 1020 usable HP does...

The Model S had the advantage of being able to soak up Willow Springs excessive bumpiness thanks to its gargantuan weight. Let's see what it would do around Laguna Seca.

Certainly not faster than a new M5 ( honestly what is? ). But at 7:35 faster than a Taycan and I think that really says something.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alista...ew-ev-nurburgring-lap-record/?sh=4f5ea86d78fc

https://www.supercars.net/blog/top-nurburgting-times/

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36607023/2022-bmw-m5-cs-nurburgring-lap-time/

Not really. The Plaid has nearly 300 more HP than the Taycan, and the Taycan is just as heavy as the Plaid.

 

[OX1]

So far at my track, you get one track day in 22 (maybe) for EV's..............

https://njmp.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/NJMP-Electric-Cars-Announcement-003.pdf

Also sounds like maybe the insr companies are not fully on board yet. Hope they charge those extra costs to the EV owners, a track day already costs a crapload.

Sponsored