Good news for Mustang via Jim Farley: ICE business will focus around Bronco & Mustang

[MidwayJ]

A GT500 is heavy too, but plenty of fun in the twisties. The Tesla's are pretty well balanced and handle surprising well especially the model S. It is really nice to know going forward, at least in the near future, we will still have a choice. Everyone can get what they want.

Well hell. I guess I'll just buy electric and yell vroom vroom while passing all the ICE luddites.

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[IceGamer]

I'm pretty sure that sound generators or even massive speakers will be built on the outside of cars in order to generate emotions especially for bystanders. It will not satisfy any purists but the average Joe will be convinced.

There are already concept cars that have speakers at the rear apron and other will follow. Emotions can be generated through sound and I’m pretty sure that soon others will hop the bandwagon. They just haven’t decided yet which kind of sound an EV should make. However, I just don’t like these elevator-like sounds. If it’s fake already make it sound good at last…

EV development has just started but a high revving V8 sound and a software that imitates shifting would generate much more emotions than what we have today.

 

[Hack]

I admire how fast the Teslas are, but they're heavy. I can't imagine they're very fun to drive in the twisties.

I agree, but most modern cars are too heavy and aren't as fun as a sub 3,000 lb vehicle in the twisties. Mustangs are quite heavy.

Ford's own f-150 over the course of about a decade will be at least 17% cheaper to own than a comparable gas powered f-150. Battery tech and motors can already easily last a few hundred thousand miles and well over a decade with no major issues, and they're getting more reliable all the time. Literally every brand who sells evs and gas powered cars has said one of the main benefits of evs is they're so cheap to own long term. They almost never break, compared to gas powered cars, which have issues all the time, and they're much cheaper to "refuel". Sure, they cost more upfront, but long term, they're the cheaper option. Maybe if you only keep a car for 5-10 years, gas will be preferable, but beyond that, 10-15 plus years, evs will be more reliable. Many evs have their original batteries 12-15 years later, just look at Ford and Toyota hybrids.

An F150 is not cheap daily transportation. Cheap daily transportation is like the Fiesta (non ST) I bought a number of years ago for less than $12,000. F150s are really expensive. I'm sure for someone with a lot of extra cash that likes EVs, they are fine. Just don't say they are cheap daily transport. I'm pretty sure that is not correct.

The last EV review (C&D, I believe) I read said it took 10 years to break even when buying an EV vs. an ICE and by then the EV's batteries were significantly worn so that the range had decreased a lot. I think you are just saying things without any evidence.

 

[DeluxeStang]

I agree, but most modern cars are too heavy and aren't as fun as a sub 3,000 lb vehicle in the twisties. Mustangs are quite heavy.



An F150 is not cheap daily transportation. Cheap daily transportation is like the Fiesta (non ST) I bought a number of years ago for less than $12,000. F150s are really expensive. I'm sure for someone with a lot of extra cash that likes EVs, they are fine. Just don't say they are cheap daily transport. I'm pretty sure that is not correct.

The last EV review (C&D, I believe) I read said it took 10 years to break even when buying an EV vs. an ICE and by then the EV's batteries were significantly worn so that the range had decreased a lot. I think you are just saying things without any evidence.

Hopefully the fiesta you owned was a manual, I've heard that auto dct in those is horrible, so hopefully you didn't have to deal with that. Have though about getting a fiesta myself, I've heard they're pretty reliable as long as you avoid the previously mentioned dct. The fiesta st seems great, you just never see small hatchbacks in the states unless you live in urban environments.

 

[Hack]

Hopefully the fiesta you owned was a manual, I've heard that auto dct in those is horrible, so hopefully you didn't have to deal with that. Have though about getting a fiesta myself, I've heard they're pretty reliable as long as you avoid the previously mentioned dct. The fiesta st seems great, you just never see small hatchbacks in the states unless you live in urban environments.

Yeah the regular Fiesta was a manual. The automatic cost more money, plus I prefer a manual anyway. I do like the ST. But it seems like most people here don't like them. I got a good deal on the FiST because it was about 2 years old and the dealerships hadn't been able to sell it yet. The one thing I dislike about it is I think the suspension is way too stiff. Other than that, it's pretty good.

 

[BlackandBlue]

I am glad the EV fade is starting to wear away. It has been distracting and has pulled a lot of capital out of improving and innovating ICE.

The shift is slow but real and gaining steam. A couple years ago the storyline was ICE would be dead by 2025. Then it was 2030. Now it’s getting pushed only on certain models. 2040 next?

In reality the shortcomings of EVs (and infrastructure) outweigh their solutions for the large majority of people. EVs look attractive on paper but their is massive scaling problems woth current technology(see lithium price chart). In time these problems will get solved but that’s just betting on future inventions.

I expect more of these stories of OEMs walking back projections.

 

[DeluxeStang]

I am glad the EV fade is starting to wear away. It has been distracting and has pulled a lot of capital out of improving and innovating ICE.

The shift is slow but real and gaining steam. A couple years ago the storyline was ICE would be dead by 2025. Then it was 2030. Now it’s getting pushed only on certain models. 2040 next?

In reality the shortcomings of EVs (and infrastructure) outweigh their solutions for the large majority of people. EVs look attractive on paper but their is massive scaling problems woth current technology(see lithium price chart). In time these problems will get solved but that’s just betting on future inventions.

I expect more of these stories of OEMs walking back projections.

What do you think is a viable alternative? Clearly current ICE and hybrids on their own won't be enough. Some people say hydrogen, but the economic and infrastructure issues there are far worse than evs. There is no hydrogen infrastructure in most of the country. There are tens of thousands of public charging stations, with thousands more being built every year. Maybe brands could experiment with new kinds of fuel? I know Porsche was experiencing it, but unless they were able to drop the cost of that fuel, it would cost at least $15 a gallon.

 

[Twin Turbo]

EVs are here to stay and they WILL chip away at ICE sales. However, lets not turn this thread into an EV bashing one.......the point of the thread was to celebrate there will be an ICE in the S650 for a while and it WILL still see development.

 

[Hack]

EVs are here to stay and they WILL chip away at ICE sales. However, lets not turn this thread into an EV bashing one.......the point of the thread was to celebrate there will be an ICE in the S650 for a while and it WILL still see development.

I really hope the ICE development includes more cubic inches if the Mustang continues to be a large and heavy vehicle. I think a 6 liter engine would be more ideally suited to the current vehicle weight.

 

[Bikeman315]

I really hope the ICE development includes more cubic inches if the Mustang continues to be a large and heavy vehicle. I think a 6 liter engine would be more ideally suited to the current vehicle weight.

A good thought but not likely. Let’s not confuse ICE with V8. Think more on the order of Turbo V6’s and I4’s. Also hybrids. I think the V8 will be history after the S650. But we’ll still have the power, just not the sound.

 

[Hack]

A good thought but not likely. Let’s not confuse ICE with V8. Think more on the order of Turbo V6’s and I4’s. Also hybrids. I think the V8 will be history after the S650. But we’ll still have the power, just not the sound.

I really hope Ford can find some way around that. I really don't want a turbo V6 in the Mustang making it even bigger and heavier.

 

[Twin Turbo]

I think it's a safe bet the Coyote will be around for the duration of S650. I'm expecting......or rather hoping, for a Gen 4 with at least 480hp and perhaps a slight bump in torque over the current car (remembering the '22 lost 10 horses down to 450).

A Coyote with hybrid assist will enable the V8 to live on in Europe as by mid 2026 every Ford sold in the UK (not sure about the rest of Europe) has to be a least a hybrid, if not a full EV.

 

[Hack]

I would think they should be able to get at least 550 hp from 5.0 liters without too much trouble. It would cost a lot more to make that power from 5 liters versus just adding some cubic inches, but I hope they make some actual power improvements rather than just being stagnant.

The GT350 made 526 in 2015. It's time for a significant power bump and the upcoming standard GT should at least exceed the old GT350 from 7-8 years ago. Some adjustments to bore and stroke might be needed to get the piston speeds down, but 480 would be pretty meh in my opinion.

 

[because_murica]

I would think they should be able to get at least 550 hp from 5.0 liters without too much trouble. It would cost a lot more to make that power from 5 liters versus just adding some cubic inches, but I hope they make some actual power improvements rather than just being stagnant.

The GT350 made 526 in 2015. It's time for a significant power bump and the upcoming standard GT should at least exceed the old GT350 from 7-8 years ago. Some adjustments to bore and stroke might be needed to get the piston speeds down, but 480 would be pretty meh in my opinion.

I predict 500-525hp from the GT. OR, 500hp for the GT, and 525hp for the BOSS 302.

 

[because_murica]

With GM and Dodge calling it quits on their ICE muscle cars, the horsepower wars are over in my book. As long as Ford has an ICE sports car, even at 400hp, that still takes the cake.

Unless synthetic fuels become mainstream and a viable alternative to EVs, we're going to see the KWh wars.

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