S650 Mustang launches in 2022 as 2023MY reveals Ford Linkedin post

[Fly2High]

The Mustang and M2 are in a completely different class. And there is a reason the M2's starting price is $23,000 more than a GT -- you pay to have the technology that allows you to down-size, light-weight, and package the car like a sardine can.

The BRZ/FRS has 1/2 the trunk space of a GT, and a chassis built to handle a 200hp flat-4 -- that's why it is afforded interior room . Once you add length to the front to REALISTICALLY fit a V8 and it's cooling, add an actual trunk, SOME refinement, save room for future hi-po models with superchargers/turbos, intercoolers, heat exchangers, a chassis that can handle the power, and you crash test it, you are going to have a bigger/heavier car.

You can't even compare your TC -- it front wheel drive. Not even remotely similar.

if you are going to add weight and reduce its performance, you could compare it to a 70's Cadilac because that is where you will end up with. Why, because one can charge more for it? The GT350 IS in that bracket. A buddy just purchased an M2 Comp in the low $40Ks.

Who says you have to compete only on price. from all the magazine testing, they put the M2 against the Camaro and Mustang all the time. Size and performance wise, it is in the same bracket. Just maybe not your price bracket.

Yes, with 1980s safety gear, crash standards, and pedestrian safety standards.

Does it take 600 lbs to get modern safety standards? There are so many cars out there that are not that heavy. Look at the Camaro. It is about 200 lbs lighter.

All I am saying, for as long as we are willing to buy a car that weighs more, they will take whatever shortcuts the market will afford.
More weight means less economy which is ironically the opposite way they need to go. the way they get around this is by enlarging the car so they move to a more lax larger category.

To me, This will be my last Mustang if all they keep doing is getting heavier and bigger. IMHO, they have done more with less before and I think they are saving weight savings as a last resort to meet federal standards. Once they go too big or gas becomes too expensive, we will require they get smaller and lighter.

If they are not willing to make a smaller Mustang, they should do what Toyota is doing and make 3 sporty cars. Leave the Mustang as a drag car and give those who like to turn a track car. for all of you who need the space, they will sell a chrome shoe horn to help you get in.

From the other thread (https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...he-mustangs-future.136176/page-2#post-2801266), Ford is starting to think 0-60 isn't enough anymore. they need other metrics. i wouldn't be surprised they drop the weight and focus more on handling and possibly slim down to get there.

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[shogun32]

Interior wise, The BRZ is very close to the interior of a Mustang

eek, have you driven one? The BRZ is tight. Gross number of interior cubic feet is a worthless metric. Hip room, shoulder room, elbow room, foot room, these are what matter. I'd have to go look up the numbers for the Gen7 GTI but you want to talk about spacious and lots of room to swing my arms around in a small car, and it even has 4 doors and allows adults with 2 standard length legs to sit back there. I agree the Mustang does a poor job of using what interior space it does have.

 

[Mikthehun1]

if you are going to add weight and reduce its performance, you could compare it to a 70's Cadilac because that is where you will end up with. Why, because one can charge more for it? The GT350 IS in that bracket. A buddy just purchased an M2 Comp in the low $40Ks.

Who says you have to compete only on price. from all the magazine testing, they put the M2 against the Camaro and Mustang all the time. Size and performance wise, it is in the same bracket. Just maybe not your price bracket.




Does it take 600 lbs to get modern safety standards? There are so many cars out there that are not that heavy. Look at the Camaro. It is about 200 lbs lighter.

All I am saying, for as long as we are willing to buy a car that weighs more, they will take whatever shortcuts the market will afford.
More weight means less economy which is ironically the opposite way they need to go. the way they get around this is by enlarging the car so they move to a more lax larger category.

To me, This will be my last Mustang if all they keep doing is getting heavier and bigger. IMHO, they have done more with less before and I think they are saving weight savings as a last resort to meet federal standards. Once they go too big or gas becomes too expensive, we will require they get smaller and lighter.

If they are not willing to make a smaller Mustang, they should do what Toyota is doing and make 3 sporty cars. Leave the Mustang as a drag car and give those who like to turn a track car. for all of you who need the space, they will sell a chrome shoe horn to help you get in.

From the other thread (https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...he-mustangs-future.136176/page-2#post-2801266), Ford is starting to think 0-60 isn't enough anymore. they need other metrics. i wouldn't be surprised they drop the weight and focus more on handling and possibly slim down to get there.

2020 Miata weighs 200+ lbs more than a 1989 Miata. That's an increase of 10%, which is skewed on the low end by just how tiny the damn thing is. Let's assume a weight gain of 15%, landing us at ~3650. That's also not adding in modern audio, power seats, infotainment system, power windows, climate control, etc. Also, heavily optioned foxes were closer to 3400-3500 lbs. Those late 80's "options" are standard on cars now. So yes, modernizing a light Fox nets you a modern s550 weight.

 

[MustangJoe84]

I have an SN95 and a New Edge Mustang. They are much more cramped inside compared to my S550, especially in the interior width. I think the interior/exterior dimensions of the S550 are very good. I also have a Fox body and the interior dimensions are very generous for the size of the car overall. I attribute this to the dash pushed back closer to the windshield and the more square roofline.

 

[SStormtrooPer]

if you are going to add weight and reduce its performance, you could compare it to a 70's Cadilac because that is where you will end up with. Why, because one can charge more for it? The GT350 IS in that bracket. A buddy just purchased an M2 Comp in the low $40Ks.

Who says you have to compete only on price. from all the magazine testing, they put the M2 against the Camaro and Mustang all the time. Size and performance wise, it is in the same bracket. Just maybe not your price bracket.

Why only price? Because you are comparing the GT to a M2 which starts at $58,xxx vs the GT's $32,xxx, and saying if BMW can get size/weight down, so can Ford. Have you seen how a tightly a 3600lb. M2 is packaged? You pay for that technology up front, you pay with cost of ownership, and you pay for that when the car needs service. The difference in purchase price alone is almost the cost of ANOTHER Mustang, and comparisons to a car nearly twice the price just make the Mustang look like an incredible deal — in your argument price is literally THE most important metric.

Regardless, the M2 is a compact sports car, and the GT350 is a hi-po sub-model of a pony car. So regardless of who compares what, no, it's not in the same class — the 3 and 4-series(M3/M4) are(well they are closer), and were before the M2 was even a dream. They have always been similarly sized since the 90's, they grew fairly equally over the years(the BWM more than the Mustang in fact), and the M3 Coupe/M4 have a similar layout to Mustang. A M4 is 5" shorter, and 3,565 - 3,620lbs. — and DOUBLE the price of a GT.

BTW, not sure what your buddy's used M2 Comp has to do with the price of a NEW Mustang, but that's either the deal of the century, it's a beat high mile car, or it's BS — because used 2019 M2 Comps are selling in the low-50’s to mid-60's.

Does it take 600 lbs to get modern safety standards? There are so many cars out there that are not that heavy. Look at the Camaro. It is about 200 lbs lighter.

Have you seen a Fox or SN95 crash tested compared to a S550?

Your Camaro comparison is valid however, and to be 200lbs. lighter is not unrealistic for an equally sized car with a $6,000 higher starting price. Now, if only the Camaro could sell…

 

[Fly2High]

An article suggesting cars in the same class as the Mustang

I should have said BMW 2 series instead of M2 Comp but the M2 Comp does fall in the price range since it extends all the way to the GT500 starting at , what $76K?

https://www.autobytel.com/sports-ca...-ford-mustang-competitors-to-consider-133042/

 

[Bikeman315]

An article suggesting cars in the same class as the Mustang

I should have said BMW 2 series instead of M2 Comp but the M2 Comp does fall in the price range since it extends all the way to the GT500 starting at , what $76K?

https://www.autobytel.com/sports-ca...-ford-mustang-competitors-to-consider-133042/

All of you are making some good points but it doesn't matter. As much as we would all want lighter and faster, our Mustang is coming to the end. Heck, I'm just grateful at this point that we are getting a S650. Maybe we will get lucky and it will lose a few pounds. Comparisons against BMW's and older Mustangs will certainly add posts to this thread but it will not change what we will be getting. Carry on!

 

[SStormtrooPer]

An article suggesting cars in the same class as the Mustang

I should have said BMW 2 series instead of M2 Comp but the M2 Comp does fall in the price range since it extends all the way to the GT500 starting at , what $76K?

https://www.autobytel.com/sports-ca...-ford-mustang-competitors-to-consider-133042/

Ok, lol. Two of the cars are 4-door sedans, three are compact sports cars with half the power, one is a compact 4-door hot-hatch, and one is a 2-seater convertible. Only three of those cars are in, or close to the same class. You are honestly going to argue those cars are all similar beyond price? And there is a HUGE difference between the 2-series and M2 -- it's like comparing the GT to the BRZ.

And the GT500 has almost twice the power of the M2, and will completely destroy it.

 

[Jm22]

You’re not getting a used M2C for low or mid 40s unless it’s a salvage title. I have a 2018 M2 and was offered $43k trade-in last week with 18k miles.

I cross-shopped a loaded GT and the M2 and chose the M2. The M2 has a surprisingly good sized trunk and interior space. It’s much more refined than a Mustang and the handling is far better. When a fully loaded Mustang was $48k and CPO M2 with 2k miles and a full xpel wrap was $50k, it’s an easy choice.

That being said, the Mustang is more comfortable, a V8 is always fun, and it’s cheaper to maintain off warranty. I may be looking at getting the rumored Mach 1 or GT500. I’m bored of my car and the suspension makes every passenger wince over every bump.

 

[bootlegger]

Want your Mustang to be 200lbs lighter? Aftermarket wheels, steeda rotors, lightweight battery, and aluminum DS will likely get you there.

 

[Mikthehun1]

Want your Mustang to be 200lbs lighter? Aftermarket wheels, steeda rotors, lightweight battery, and aluminum DS will likely get you there.

Rear seat delete kit, remove trunk and hood liners, ditch interior floor mats. All this and you still haven't touched any of the creature comforts.

 

[bootlegger]

Rear seat delete kit, remove trunk and hood liners, ditch interior floor mats. All this and you still haven't touched any of the creature comforts.

My TSW wheels and wider tires alone were a 50lb weight savings over the stock PP1 wheels/tires.

 

[Fly2High]

Want your Mustang to be 200lbs lighter? Aftermarket wheels, steeda rotors, lightweight battery, and aluminum DS will likely get you there.

If I wanted to save 200 lbs, I would keep my fat Bu++ out of it LOL.

Speaking of battery, did you see how small it is? I was shocked. My '86 Daytona had a series 34 battery which was huge compared to the one in the Mustang.

I wonder how much more it would actually cost Ford to just include those things or offer a lightweight package. Funny thing is, the car might improve in gas mileage too. A little sure but every little bit counts. Since these things could be common to all of their cars, a lightweight package could be cost effective. They already increased the price by $6K and gave us nothing for it. I'll bet that money is to offset low volume. I wonder if making the car lighter and improve on fuel efficiency if that would attract more buyers.

I guess we will see when a hybrid option comes or 10-15 years from now if the nameplate still exists. Here's hoping to it does.

 

[tokuzumi]

Mustang GT vs Camaro SS weight difference isn't much.

2019 SS Auto coupe - 3697 lbs (https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/camaro-ss/2019.tab1.html)
2020 GT Auto coupe - 3733 lbs (https://media.ford.com/content/dam/...duct/2020/mustang/2020-Mustang-Tech_Specs.pdf)

I'm comparing a like for like. So a SS vs a GT.

So help me find this 200 lb difference.

 

[bootlegger]

If I wanted to save 200 lbs, I would keep my fat Bu++ out of it LOL.

Speaking of battery, did you see how small it is? I was shocked. My '86 Daytona had a series 34 battery which was huge compared to the one in the Mustang.

I wonder how much more it would actually cost Ford to just include those things or offer a lightweight package. Funny thing is, the car might improve in gas mileage too. A little sure but every little bit counts. Since these things could be common to all of their cars, a lightweight package could be cost effective. They already increased the price by $6K and gave us nothing for it. I'll bet that money is to offset low volume. I wonder if making the car lighter and improve on fuel efficiency if that would attract more buyers.

I guess we will see when a hybrid option comes or 10-15 years from now if the nameplate still exists. Here's hoping to it does.

I would pay extra for a lightweight package.

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