Report: Next gen S650 Mustang will have full 8 year life cycle

[martinjlm]

Autoline Daily are quoting Auto Forecast Solutions report that the next gen Mustang will start production in 2028 ('29MY) at Flatrock.

The video is a little vague and taken at face value you could assume "next gen" would be S650.........but I'm sure (at least I hope!!) Ford wouldn't expect S550 to live for another 8 model years!!! So, the video must be referring to the next-next gen (S750?) as this would align with what was reported in the original post in this thread, that S650 will run for 8 model years (well, 7, if this latest report is accurate).

@amk91
@martinjlm

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Saw this earlier. I’m an Autoline junkie. I know one of the forecasting execs at AutoForecast Solutions. We used to work together at a COVID unsafe range Really sharp guy, so I would tend to believe what he is saying. Keep in mind that in this thread there is a lot (a LOT) of conflating programs and platforms.
S197, S550, and S650 are all programs built on D2C platform. So by 2028 Ford will have gotten more than their money’s worth out of the platform, so “short cycling” a program to bring in a new platform is not a big deal.

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[martinjlm]

SN95 to S197 to S550...Why are we thinking S650 or S750 after? Ford could really use any alpha-numeric code they wanted that wasn't taken right?

Not sure how Ford does it, but at GM, vehicle program codes are often and semi-randomly restructured in order to keep people like me from easily figuring out what new vehicles are being timed when. For example, 5th Gen Camaro was GMX-### (I forget what the actual numbers were and don’t feel like looking it up) and 6th Gen Camaro is A1SC. Such changes also tend to take place when there is a platform change. Since 2028 will likely be a platform change, Ford may discontinue the Sx50 program coding convention.

EDIT: GMX-521. I was in my forecasting system this morning so I figured I'd update it.

 

[MikeyV]

Because manufacturers always work 5-10 years out, believe it or not.

Most people know this, I certainly do. It doesn't mean much.

Rumors about when the S650 would drop were all over the place in the last 2-3 years.

Plans seems to change fast at Ford. Hell, they have three CEOs in every Mustang lifecycle.

At least Hackett is gone.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Saw this earlier. I’m an Autoline junkie. I know one of the forecasting execs at AutoForecast Solutions. We used to work together at a COVID unsafe range Really sharp guy, so I would tend to believe what he is saying. Keep in mind that in this thread there is a lot (a LOT) of conflating programs and platforms.
S197, S550, and S650 are all programs built on D2C platform. So by 2028 Ford will have gotten more than their money’s worth out of the platform, so “short cycling” a program to bring in a new platform is not a big deal.

Thank you, Sir, always appreciate your input

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

Main thing I'm looking forward to with the S650 program is whether those rumors of AWD, hybrid powertrain, and/or the potential return of a V6 engine option are real or not. Oh, and perhaps most important, if the V8 survives for the S650 and possibly onward or not (through hybridization or without hybrid assistance).

 

[Twin Turbo]

I think its a safe bet that the V8 will still be available for S650

 

[Mikthehun1]

I think its a safe bet that the V8 will still be available for S650

The real question is if the 100th anniversary will have a v8?

 

[Twin Turbo]

The real question is if the 100th anniversary will have a v8?

That's a less safe bet

 

[Twin Turbo]

What, or who, to believe?!?!

This is a quote from a guy on Blue Oval Forums...........he's usually spot on with his information (he works at one of the build facilities, although I don't know if its Flatrock). He was the first person I saw state that S650 would be a heavy refresh of S550, incorporating elements of CD6. The "new" platform would be called D5.

Anyway, in response to me posting about the Auto Forecast Solutions statement, he had this to say.

"Sure....As I’ve said before the MY23 S650 is an all-new generation Mustang with a completely new tophat body on a modified platform, now known as D5. This platform will be heavily modified with some CD6 components mixed in. This generation (S650) is currently projected to have a lifespan of 8 model years and at Flat Rock as of now.

The generation after that is officially dubbed S750 and is expected to change platforms. It should launch as a MY31 and while I know that seems far away, it takes time to configure that into Fords future roadmap. CD6 may not be the platform of choice by then and it may move to another plant. Honestly hard to say where it will be by then. Lots of changes happening all the time."

Interesting that he still states 8 model years for S650 and also that S750 is the 8th Generation's official programme name. I guess with so much change in the industry and the rush to electrification, it's too far out to make assumptions as to what will underpin S750. Could it use the CD6 architecture (over a decade old by then) or something completely different? I'd like to think ICE engines will still feature in the 8th Gen car, rather than it being a pure EV, but who knows.

 

[Mikthehun1]

What, or who, to believe?!?!

This is a quote from a guy on Blue Oval Forums...........he's usually spot on with his information (he works at one of the build facilities, although I don't know if its Flatrock). He was the first person I saw state that S650 would be a heavy refresh of S550, incorporating elements of CD6. The "new" platform would be called D5.

Anyway, in response to me posting about the Auto Forecast Solutions statement, he had this to say.

"Sure....As I’ve said before the MY23 S650 is an all-new generation Mustang with a completely new tophat body on a modified platform, now known as D5. This platform will be heavily modified with some CD6 components mixed in. This generation (S650) is currently projected to have a lifespan of 8 model years and at Flat Rock as of now.

The generation after that is officially dubbed S750 and is expected to change platforms. It should launch as a MY31 and while I know that seems far away, it takes time to configure that into Fords future roadmap. CD6 may not be the platform of choice by then and it may move to another plant. Honestly hard to say where it will be by then. Lots of changes happening all the time."

Interesting that he still states 8 model years for S650 and also that S750 is the 8th Generation's official programme name. I guess with so much change in the industry and the rush to electrification, it's too far out to make assumptions as to what will underpin S750. Could it use the CD6 architecture (over a decade old by then) or something completely different? I'd like to think ICE engines will still feature in the 8th Gen car, rather than it being a pure EV, but who knows.

Wouldn't be surprised if they use CD6 for the 8th gen, especially if the 7th gen uses some components from it. D2C has now been used for two generations. It was already a decade old when the s550 program started. That's almost 20 model years across 5th and 6th gen.

 

[Hack]

Wouldn't be surprised if they use CD6 for the 8th gen, especially if the 7th gen uses some components from it. D2C has now been used for two generations. It was already a decade old when the s550 program started. That's almost 20 model years across 5th and 6th gen.

That kind of backs up my assumption that these platforms don't mean too much as far as the performance and competitiveness of the car goes.

 

[Mikthehun1]

That kind of backs up my assumption that these platforms don't mean too much as far as the performance and competitiveness of the car goes.

Yeah I've driven early s197's. There's no comparison. Same thing with my Charger. I've driven the early Chrysler 300's. "Same platform", worlds apart as vehicles.

 

[martinjlm]

That kind of backs up my assumption that these platforms don't mean too much as far as the performance and competitiveness of the car goes.

They actually do. The thing is getting the corporation to spend $B on vehicles that sell tens of thousands of vehicles, not hundreds of thousands, is a super tough sell. Camaro disappeared for 8 years not because of sales, but because GM wasn’t gonna spend $B for a unique platform. F-body was not capable of passing the new emissions and safety requirements and Sigma was Cadillac only. It came back when GM figured out a way to make Australia’s Zeta platform work and it went to a new level when the corporation told Cadillac to shut up and share the Alpha platform. And that decision was made primarily on the performance that Alpha would give Camaro over simply revamping Zeta.

Likewise, Corvette was originally s’posed to go mid-engine for C6, but business case. Then C7, but bankruptcy. And finally C8, and even that one had a couple close calls with death.

 

[Hack]

They actually do. The thing is getting the corporation to spend $B on vehicles that sell tens of thousands of vehicles, not hundreds of thousands, is a super tough sell. Camaro disappeared for 8 years not because of sales, but because GM wasn’t gonna spend $B for a unique platform. F-body was not capable of passing the new emissions and safety requirements and Sigma was Cadillac only. It came back when GM figured out a way to make Australia’s Zeta platform work and it went to a new level when the corporation told Cadillac to shut up and share the Alpha platform. And that decision was made primarily on the performance that Alpha would give Camaro over simply revamping Zeta.

Likewise, Corvette was originally s’posed to go mid-engine for C6, but business case. Then C7, but bankruptcy. And finally C8, and even that one had a couple close calls with death.

Cool inside info, thanks. What I mean is that Challenger and Mustang are riding on what all the pros say are crappy old platforms, but they still do well against their competitors in performance tests and sales.

 

[martinjlm]

Cool inside info, thanks. What I mean is that Challenger and Mustang are riding on what all the pros say are crappy old platforms, but they still do well against their competitors in performance tests and sales.

They do well, or I wouldn’t be on this channel. But the limitations become apparent when you drive similar trim levels back to back. Stock for stock, my Alpha based convertible handles better than any S550 non-Shelby coupe or convertible I’ve ever driven. The Camaro coupe even more so. And because of what my job was at GM and is now at IHS Markit, I drive a lot of everything. These are the last two ‘Stangs that spent time in my driveway. There have also been Challengers, AMGs and M-Series this past year and a half.

I’m not trying to knock anybody here or your personal cars, because let’s face it, you did not build your stock ride. GM just does a lot more than Ford out the door on suspension and handling. It is what it is. Ford does do a lot to make the Shelby S550 cars handle the way they do, but it comes at a very significant mass and price penalty (compare GT350 vs SS1LE). Thing is, 9 out of 10 buyers could give a $#!¥ about the difference in handling between one car or the other if they have other reasons for preferring one over the other. Provided the car handles up to their standards. And the 10th buys a Shelby.

For those whose decision on Mustang vs Camaro comes down to visibility, there isn’t anything you can do to improve Camaro’s visibility (except buy a convertible ) but there are things you can do to improve a Mustang’s suspension. There are aftermarket mods that many Mustang buyers implement to get better handling out of their S550. Hello Steeda. Nothing wrong with that. On the flip side, I have yet to meet an S550 buyer (non-Shelby) who said they chose their car over a Camaro because of the handling. I hear that all the time when Camaro buyers who also like Mustangs (yours truly included) list reasons for choosing Camaro over Mustang.

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