Report: Next gen S650 Mustang will have full 8 year life cycle

[Hack]

They do well, or I wouldn’t be on this channel. But the limitations become apparent when you drive similar trim levels back to back. Stock for stock, my Alpha based convertible handles better than any S550 non-Shelby coupe or convertible I’ve ever driven. The Camaro coupe even more so. And because of what my job was at GM and is now at IHS Markit, I drive a lot of everything. These are the last two ‘Stangs that spent time in my driveway. There have also been Challengers, AMGs and M-Series this past year and a half.

I’m not trying to knock anybody here or your personal cars, because let’s face it, you did not build your stock ride. GM just does a lot more than Ford out the door on suspension and handling. It is what it is. Ford does do a lot to make the Shelby S550 cars handle the way they do, but it comes at a very significant mass and price penalty (compare GT350 vs SS1LE). Thing is, 9 out of 10 buyers could give a $#!¥ about the difference in handling between one car or the other if they have other reasons for preferring one over the other. Provided the car handles up to their standards. And the 10th buys a Shelby.

For those whose decision on Mustang vs Camaro comes down to visibility, there isn’t anything you can do to improve Camaro’s visibility (except buy a convertible ) but there are things you can do to improve a Mustang’s suspension. There are aftermarket mods that many Mustang buyers implement to get better handling out of their S550. Hello Steeda. Nothing wrong with that. On the flip side, I have yet to meet an S550 buyer (non-Shelby) who said they chose their car over a Camaro because of the handling. I hear that all the time when Camaro buyers who also like Mustangs (yours truly included) list reasons for choosing Camaro over Mustang.

You lost me when you said that the GT350 and SS 1LE should cost the same. Maybe I misunderstood, but don't even try to say the engine in the SS 1LE is anywhere near equivalent to a Voodoo and that they should cost the same. And I'm pretty sure the two cars weigh about 15 pounds different than each other. GT350 3,760, SS 1LE 3,746. Some sources say the difference is less. And the brakes are not equivalent in those two cars either. Not close.

I'm still not sure whether the famed Alpha chassis really does much for the Camaro. The Camaro when compared to Mustang is a little smaller and a little lighter and has stiffer suspension in most equivalent packages. And the performance is close to the Mustang. Whatever Alpha does for it, the benefit is relatively small as far as I can tell. It certainly didn't benefit sales.

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[Dominant1]

One thing it wont have is a lower price...

 

[martinjlm]

You lost me when you said that the GT350 and SS 1LE should cost the same. Maybe I misunderstood, but don't even try to say the engine in the SS 1LE is anywhere near equivalent to a Voodoo and that they should cost the same. And I'm pretty sure the two cars weigh about 15 pounds different than each other. GT350 3,760, SS 1LE 3,746. Some sources say the difference is less. And the brakes are not equivalent in those two cars either. Not close.

I'm still not sure whether the famed Alpha chassis really does much for the Camaro. The Camaro when compared to Mustang is a little smaller and a little lighter and has stiffer suspension in most equivalent packages. And the performance is close to the Mustang. Whatever Alpha does for it, the benefit is relatively small as far as I can tell. It certainly didn't benefit sales.

I never said they should cost the same. Actually sort of the opposite. Why does the SS1LE, with more equipment (which adds mass, btw) cost in some cases tens of thousands less than a car with which it performs on par? It’s because Ford put more money into bringing the suspension up to the same level. 1LE is just a few tweaks on the base SS suspension that even a $37,495 base-base SS gets. That includes more coolers (and mass) than the GT350 gets. Plus powered, heated and ventilated Recaros (more mass) that are not available in the GT350. So with more mass-driving content, the SS1LE still weighs a little less than the GT350. The extra coolers alone should have made it heavier. And it costs a lot less for what amounts to a driver’s race difference between the two. That was my point.

 

[Mikthehun1]

I also want to throw out there that part of the GT350's pricetag is to pay for the badging...

 

[MikeyV]

I also want to throw out there that part of the GT350's pricetag is to pay for the badging...

Yeah, boy am I ready for them to just go back to calling them Cobras. Amazing cars, but I could do without the Shelby thing.

 

[XeninWorX]

focus on nameplates that can generate excitement — and profits.

Yes because all automakers like to make boring and unprofitable cars.

 

[Hack]

I never said they should cost the same. Actually sort of the opposite. Why does the SS1LE, with more equipment (which adds mass, btw) cost in some cases tens of thousands less than a car with which it performs on par? It’s because Ford put more money into bringing the suspension up to the same level. 1LE is just a few tweaks on the base SS suspension that even a $37,495 base-base SS gets. That includes more coolers (and mass) than the GT350 gets. Plus powered, heated and ventilated Recaros (more mass) that are not available in the GT350. So with more mass-driving content, the SS1LE still weighs a little less than the GT350. The extra coolers alone should have made it heavier. And it costs a lot less for what amounts to a driver’s race difference between the two. That was my point.

They perform on par? That doesn't sound right to me. The GT350 has significantly more power and I think the cup 2 tires (180 UTQG) are pretty equivalent to the Eagle F1 Supercar tires (220). The pilot super sports were 300s - a lot less sticky than the other two. There may be some comparisons with the old Pilot SS tires where the cars are equivalent, but Pilot SS tires are by far inferior when talking track lap times. They lasted a long time on the street for a high performance tire and still worked great on track, though. They even worked great in below freezing temperatures. More of a compromise for lots of street use like Ford typically does. Making the car friendly for both. I don't think I've seen a comparison where a pro driver drove one after the other now that the GT350 has roughly equivalent tires to the Camaro, though.

And are you talking about the 1SS 1LE or the 2SS 1LE? The weights I quoted were for the 1SS manual transmission. Does all this equipment you are talking about come on the 1SS?

I don't think Ford really spent that much on the GT350 suspension and I think you are understating the cost of developing a unique, high performance engine like the Voodoo. Do you think the new Corvette with the FPC engine copied from the Voodoo will cost within $10k of the Z51 Corvette?

 

[Twin Turbo]

Lets keep this one on topic, please

 

[martinjlm]

Lets keep this one on topic, please

I’ll dm Hack to close(?) the loop on this one.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Autoline Daily reporting on the "next gen" Mustang again.

They're still claiming the "next gen" won't appear until 2028..........and when it does it'll be EV only!

4m 30secs

http://www.autoline.tv/?fbclid=IwAR2gQpzXHe-v6GAdRafFKcNDF2aY3dZDOM2qYKVwK_sIp0YDKovaUpiTRVw

Something definitely doesn't add up though........S650 should be here in under 2 years ('23MY in 2022).......so why do Autoline daily think we won't see anything new until 2028? The EV bit? I can actually believe that, sadly.

 

[Sivi70980]

Autoline Daily reporting on the "next gen" Mustang again.

They're still claiming the "next gen" won't appear until 2028..........and when it does it'll be EV only!

4m 30secs

http://www.autoline.tv/?fbclid=IwAR2gQpzXHe-v6GAdRafFKcNDF2aY3dZDOM2qYKVwK_sIp0YDKovaUpiTRVw

Something definitely doesn't add up though........S650 should be here in under 2 years ('23MY in 2022).......so why do Autoline daily think we won't see anything new until 2028? The EV bit? I can actually believe that, sadly.

What are the chances of EV and ICE both being a powerplant option in the same(ish) car? Whoever goes first in the big 3 is going to take a chance and the other 2 would follow or not depending on how those sales go I would think. The not so mustang EV could be argued as putting the toe in the water I guess but it's very far removed from what we love in a car. The lithium mustang is pretty cool for a 1 off but not sure I would trade mine for it. But if you have the option to go V8, turbo 4, or electric or maybe hybrid in the S750, that could be cool. Likely too much of a change to make ICE and EV work together like that though.

 

[Mikthehun1]

What are the chances of EV and ICE both being a powerplant option in the same(ish) car? Whoever goes first in the big 3 is going to take a chance and the other 2 would follow or not depending on how those sales go I would think. The not so mustang EV could be argued as putting the toe in the water I guess but it's very far removed from what we love in a car. The lithium mustang is pretty cool for a 1 off but not sure I would trade mine for it. But if you have the option to go V8, turbo 4, or electric or maybe hybrid in the S750, that could be cool. Likely too much of a change to make ICE and EV work together like that though.

My "napkin engineering" guess is that the difference is analogous to a coupe vs. convertible in terms of complexity. The biggest structural hurdle would be placing the battery pack "surfboard" found in many EV's. Imagine needing to accommodate a driveshaft tunnel along the entire interior. The seating position is raised several inches with this type of battery arrangement; not exactly ideal for a sports coupe. That's a likely reason for the Karen-type Mach-E.

Alternatively, they could rearrange the trunk/frunk room for battery placement. Imagine an s550 with rear electric motors, and the "trunk" is all battery. But, with no ICE bits up front...damn that's a lot of room. Plus, all the heavy bits go over the rear.

For the hybrid version, the compact 4-cylinder goes up front, the rear batteries shrink, but the overall structure remains the same. If Ford has been listening to me , they actually go with all electric drive, and use the small motor purely for range extending. This eliminates the heavy batteries, and allows the car to fill up normally.

 

[shogun32]

he EV bit? I can actually believe that, sadly.

only if the Mustang SUV doesn't crash and burn.

 

[Mikthehun1]

only if the Mustang SUV doesn't crash and burn.

I think the batteries will be adequately insulated so as to prevent excessive fires in the event of a collision. Karen will crash it, but it shouldn't burn

 

[shogun32]

20-30kwh pack(s) and an in-line elec motor gives you no-ICE range of say 30 miles and lots of extra twist if you want it. Mat it up to a EB3.5 and hold on.

You can stuff one pack under the rear seat cushions and you get an improvement in weight balance and more rear traction to boot. I expect it would be minor design change on a part of the car nobody really cares about - the rear seat.

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