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4V Mayhem

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MORE power isn't the issue, BEHAVIORAL POWER is what matters. The LT1 (camaro) revs like an arthiritic dog with a punctured lung. With Unleashed's tune the dog got ceramic joint-replacement and two healthy lungs. I didn't dyno so may not be a single more HP and I couldn't give a damn. But now it would actually pull and rev like it should have from day one.

Maybe GM cuffed the ears of their fuel-map engineers during LT2 development and improvements aren't there anymore but I doubt that's the case.
I'm not sure how that is a realistic statement considering the "arthritic dog with a punctured lung" runs low 12s and keeps up with the current (18+) GT with nothing more than a trans upgrade from the factory since 2016. The point is that GM tuned the LT1 to the point that an aftermarket tune is almost not even worthwhile or at the very least isn't worth enought o merit voiding the warranty. And besides the 18+ GT, there is no other stock non-FI non-Supercar V8 powered car that can match it. Nor can the V6 competition even with turbos strapped to them from the factory. Anyway, the manufacturers are doing everything they can to "ease" us into the transition to where there will be no gains to be had from the aftermarket. Or so that we will be discouraged from going to the aftermarket.
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There are generally 2 kinds of buyers. The guys that can live with stock and perhaps do some wheels and wings at most.
Then there’s the enthusiasts who buy to mod , often with no ends in sight.
This lot wants a blank canvas . They will not buy a locked car.
Period
So manufacturers doing the policing thing will loose these customers.
What is of interest is how many of us would not buy a locked car?
Ford or any manufacturer WILL loose sales.
Will the quantity be relevant to total sales ?
 

4V Mayhem

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They will not buy a locked car.
Period
So manufacturers doing the policing thing will loose these customers.
What is of interest is how many of us would not buy a locked car?
Ford or any manufacturer WILL loose sales.
They won't lose customers. And we will buy locked cars. Why? Because, what are the alternatives? A 300 HP Camry? I'd rather buy a locked fully optioned 500 HP Mustang than buy a Camry. Ford won't lose sales. because for every customer willing to walk away, there are 5 more willing to buy. back when there were 190 HP Maximas with 4 doors and suspension and engine settings that you could adjust on the fly, yea they gave 220 HP Base model Mustang GTs a run. And if you didn't buy a Mustang then you could get a sedan with surprisingly similar straight line performance but way more options and comfort etc. But now the HP and performance are world's apart. Even if Ford, GM, and FCA permanently locked all the ECUs and there was no way to unlock them, how many of us are going to turn away in anger and buy something like an Optima? Unfortunately us customers no longer have any power or pull or advantage or say in these matters. Think about it. Even the Diehard fans. If you are truly diehard, then you will buy whatever they put out there.
 

paulm1

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any car with "self driving features / capability" and wifi access is going to have a locked ECU. Think about what could happen if it got hacked. I discussed this with callaway corvettes over the summer at corvettes at carlisle. Callaway was still in discussions with GM about access to the C8 ECU for tuning.
 

Rapid Red

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Personally, I feel we cater to the stupid too much. Why is it BAD to tell people they are ignorant about something and should learn about it? Why do we have to make it OKAY for people to be shit drivers with 40k sensors in cars to prevent lane drift and auto cruse distance. Why do I have to pay for features I don't need and just turn off because we can't make our driver's license test worth taking and have to be a repeatable test?

We Never uphold, reward, and reinforce the smart people that do things right because "it's just expected". Instead, we just spend all our time and abilities and money to help enable the stupid instead of forcing them to learn to do things right.

If you're so bad at driving that you need all the shit in cars today to be able to drive, you Should NOT BE DRIVING. Just like we should FORCE people at work to attend regular Security training. EVEN THE C-LEVEL. And if the CEO is too stupid to pass the basics, he should be held accountable in some way just like the random office assistant is.

I'm tired of pandering to the stupid just because they happen to be rich, or well-connected and never had to own up to their stupid ignorance.

Well said ..........
 


Rapid Red

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They won't lose customers. And we will buy locked cars. Why? Because, what are the alternatives? A 300 HP Camry? I'd rather buy a locked fully optioned 500 HP Mustang than buy a Camry. Ford won't lose sales. because for every customer willing to walk away, there are 5 more willing to buy. back when there were 190 HP Maximas with 4 doors and suspension and engine settings that you could adjust on the fly, yea they gave 220 HP Base model Mustang GTs a run. And if you didn't buy a Mustang then you could get a sedan with surprisingly similar straight line performance but way more options and comfort etc. But now the HP and performance are world's apart. Even if Ford, GM, and FCA permanently locked all the ECUs and there was no way to unlock them, how many of us are going to turn away in anger and buy something like an Optima? Unfortunately us customers no longer have any power or pull or advantage or say in these matters. Think about it. Even the Diehard fans. If you are truly diehard, then you will buy whatever they put out there.
Not entirely true, for instance, turned down the Jeep truck for 1 reason. That stupid shutdown at every frigging stop.

Ended up being a good thing, got this ass-kicking GT.
 

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They won't lose customers. And we will buy locked cars. Why? Because, what are the alternatives? A 300 HP Camry? I'd rather buy a locked fully optioned 500 HP Mustang than buy a Camry. Ford won't lose sales. because for every customer willing to walk away, there are 5 more willing to buy. back when there were 190 HP Maximas with 4 doors and suspension and engine settings that you could adjust on the fly, yea they gave 220 HP Base model Mustang GTs a run. And if you didn't buy a Mustang then you could get a sedan with surprisingly similar straight line performance but way more options and comfort etc. But now the HP and performance are world's apart. Even if Ford, GM, and FCA permanently locked all the ECUs and there was no way to unlock them, how many of us are going to turn away in anger and buy something like an Optima? Unfortunately us customers no longer have any power or pull or advantage or say in these matters. Think about it. Even the Diehard fans. If you are truly diehard, then you will buy whatever they put out there.
I don’t know the figures of the numbers that won’t buy. Haven’t done a survey.
Perhaps we should start a thread with who won’t buy.

I definitely will not buy a locked ecu car that monitors me.

There will be other options . Good ones too.
It won’t have to be a Camry.
 

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I am curious which of you mustang owners won’t buy a new S650 because the ecu is locked and you are monitored by Ford.
I will sadly have to find a new platform when I move on from my 2020.
 

Bikeman315

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I don’t know the figures of the numbers that won’t buy. Haven’t done a survey.
Every new product faces the issue of current owners/users not liking it. Nothing new here. But for every person walking away there will be another coming in. The net loss will be minimal.

Perhaps we should start a thread with who won’t buy.
Go ahead! :like:

I definitely will not buy a locked ecu car that monitors me.
Your current car already has tele-metrics.

There will be other options . Good ones too.
I know you are half a world away (looking forward to visiting next year) but how many options do you have for a reasonably priced eight cylinder, 500 HP, rear wheel drive, two door coupe? Our choices here in the US are limited.
 

Bikeman315

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17Magnetic5.0

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If you’re looking for a new V8 in a coupe i think it’ll be pretty hard to find a new platform to move to that won’t have a locked ecu
 

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AvalancheSVT

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locked ecu is fine, where do you get the "that is monitored" part?

i have no intention of tuning my car as it does all the things i want out of the box. i can only imagine the new uglier ones will only be better performing.
 

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If you’re looking for a new V8 in a coupe i think it’ll be pretty hard to find a new platform to move to that won’t have a locked ecu
I agree . But would you just accept it or move to a alternative platform ?
Id consider a Supra GR, m4, RS3.
But as you say , no v8 platforms. Guess our older 550s will become very sought after .
 

Bikeman315

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locked ecu is fine, where do you get the "that is monitored" part?
He is referring to items such a FordPass and other tele-metrics.

I agree . But would you just accept it or move to a alternative platform ?
Id consider a Supra GR, m4, RS3.
All the cars you mentioned are awesome but no thank you. I want the sound of my Coyote. I'll live with the locked ECU and monitoring so as to not give that up.
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