Wonder why Ford didn't develop all-new Mustang?

[Gregs24]

Reasonable arguments. Thank you for your answer.
I like the R8 as well, who doesn't? It's just in another league compared to the TT - performance and money wise...




I think most people like Porsche. Today their cars are the best you can get but they do come at a price... I generally don't like the design of their cars. Apart from the Carrera GT and the 918 Spider they do not look appealing to me. My father once owned a 928 and I never liked it. Harsh ride, underwhelmingly 'fast' and overall very limited in quality (back then Porsche struggled as a brand).




I don’t really get the weight argument. Lighter cars are better no doubt about that but a modern AWD system adds around 50kg which, in my perspective, is a worthy sacrifice for the performance gain and overall usability of the car. Besides, many carry around a toolbox in their cars for repairs and such. Add an overweight driver and the overall weight gain is much higher compared to the AWD weight gain.

Lightweight makes sense if one goes the distance like the Porsche GT2 RS or other cars of its kind. It doesn’t make sense to me in daily driving car that is required to offer at least a decent amount of amenities to the driver ;)

If the Mustang would be my second or third car that is only driven occasionally I would still option a modern AWD system if possible and dismantle everything else from the car that adds unnecessary weight like the insulation, rear seats, audio system and such. However, none of it makes any sense if the driver weighs in over ~80kg (160lbs). The easiest way to reduce the weight of my car for me would be by reducing my bodyweight…

You need to drive a Lotus or Alpine A110 to discover how liberating a lack of weight is. Everything comes alive and you don't need a huge heavy V million to power it. Ride is better because you can have softer springs as less weight to support so that better ride doesn't compromise handling.

This is why in the UK we find it amusing that you guys call the Mustang a 'sports car' when to us it is a big, relatively heavy GT. Sports cars need to weigh sub 1200kg and be like a water boatman! Two 85kg people in an Alpine A110 would still weigh 500kg less than an empty Mustang!

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[IceGamer]

You need to drive a Lotus or Alpine A110 to discover how liberating a lack of weight is. Everything comes alive and you don't need a huge heavy V million to power it. Ride is better because you can have softer springs as less weight to support so that better ride doesn't compromise handling.

This is why in the UK we find it amusing that you guys call the Mustang a 'sports car' when to us it is a big, relatively heavy GT. Sports cars need to weigh sub 1200kg and be like a water boatman! Two 85kg people in an Alpine A110 would still weigh 500kg less than an empty Mustang!

I agree. It's the Mustang 'GT' so for and the vast majority in Germany I would say that we don't consider the Mustang a proper sportscar. It's a GT and mostly used as such. It's also sporty but it's not a sportscar.

A 1200kg car would be great but with all these modern regulations it's almost impossible to build such a car today.

 

[IPOGT]

QUOTE="Gregs24, post: 3201715, member: 36781"]
You need to drive a Lotus or Alpine A110 to discover how liberating a lack of weight is. Everything comes alive and you don't need a huge heavy V million to power it. Ride is better because you can have softer springs as less weight to support so that better ride doesn't compromise handling.

This is why in the UK we find it amusing that you guys call the Mustang a 'sports car' when to us it is a big, relatively heavy GT. Sports cars need to weigh sub 1200kg and be like a water boatman! Two 85kg people in an Alpine A110 would still weigh 500kg less than an empty Mustang!
[/QUOTE]
Stop complaining. You’re lucky we let you buy a Mustang at all. Just kidding.

 

[Hack]

Reasonable arguments. Thank you for your answer.
I like the R8 as well, who doesn't? It's just in another league compared to the TT - performance and money wise...




I think most people like Porsche. Today their cars are the best you can get but they do come at a price... I generally don't like the design of their cars. Apart from the Carrera GT and the 918 Spider they do not look appealing to me. My father once owned a 928 and I never liked it. Harsh ride, underwhelmingly 'fast' and overall very limited in quality (back then Porsche struggled as a brand).

I owned a 944 and I loved it. I think the 928 is very cool but I have never driven or ridden in one. My assumption is they are a little bigger, softer and more luxurious than I would prefer. It's interesting to hear from someone who knows better that the ride was firm. That makes the car more interesting to me. I agree on the power side - most 40 year old cars need a power boost to match up with modern sensibilities.

I don’t really get the weight argument. Lighter cars are better no doubt about that but a modern AWD system adds around 50kg which, in my perspective, is a worthy sacrifice for the performance gain and overall usability of the car. Besides, many carry around a toolbox in their cars for repairs and such. Add an overweight driver and the overall weight gain is much higher compared to the AWD weight gain.

Depends on what you want. I understand the desire for luxury and AWD. Most men here buy big 4WD pickups even though they don't need to haul much. They are safe and comfortable, but I get bored in a big, safe vehicle.

Lightweight makes sense if one goes the distance like the Porsche GT2 RS or other cars of its kind. It doesn’t make sense to me in daily driving car that is required to offer at least a decent amount of amenities to the driver ;)

Like I said, depends on priorities. Almost any car sold today has more than enough amenities for me.

If the Mustang would be my second or third car that is only driven occasionally I would still option a modern AWD system if possible and dismantle everything else from the car that adds unnecessary weight like the insulation, rear seats, audio system and such. However, none of it makes any sense if the driver weighs in over ~80kg (160lbs). The easiest way to reduce the weight of my car for me would be by reducing my bodyweight…

I would buy a lightweight car and add sound insulation if necessary. That's funny on body weight. I weigh about 200 lbs, but my body fat is quite low. I'm sure I could lose 10-15 lbs of muscle mass if I decided I wanted to, but I don't. I'm 6'4" and I think I am spot on where I want to be. Maybe part of why I want a small car is because it's agile, unlike me. Corner turning is a priority for me more so than my personal comfort.

I do like the Challenger and if I ever decided I was done with going to the road course I might end up with one. They are really comfortable on the highway and they still have a muscular feel to them. I wouldn't say they are exactly sporty feeling, but they do feel like the engine is powerful.

 

[IPOGT]

I owned a 944 and I loved it. I think the 928 is very cool but I have never driven or ridden in one. My assumption is they are a little bigger, softer and more luxurious than I would prefer. It's interesting to hear from someone who knows better that the ride was firm. That makes the car more interesting to me. I agree on the power side - most 40 year old cars need a power boost to match up with modern sensibilities.



Depends on what you want. I understand the desire for luxury and AWD. Most men here buy big 4WD pickups even though they don't need to haul much. They are safe and comfortable, but I get bored in a big, safe vehicle.



Like I said, depends on priorities. Almost any car sold today has more than enough amenities for me.



I would buy a lightweight car and add sound insulation if necessary. That's funny on body weight. I weigh about 200 lbs, but my body fat is quite low. I'm sure I could lose 10-15 lbs of muscle mass if I decided I wanted to, but I don't. I'm 6'4" and I think I am spot on where I want to be. Maybe part of why I want a small car is because it's agile, unlike me. Corner turning is a priority for me more so than my personal comfort.

I do like the Challenger and if I ever decided I was done with going to the road course I might end up with one. They are really comfortable on the highway and they still have a muscular feel to them. I wouldn't say they are exactly sporty feeling, but they do feel like the engine is powerful.

The Challenger is true to its roots. It handles better than it’s massive size would suggest, is fun to drive and you’re right, really comfortable. We love ours. Keeper.

 

[shogun32]

I do like the Challenger ...They are really comfortable on the highway

I wouldn't be quite so fast with that assertion. The Mustang and Camaro even with Recaro are comfortable for hours on end. The Challenger the seat pan sags and I squirm in it a LOT more than either other car. And I have the leather+fancy seat... My Audi sport seat (2012 S5) is very nice and supportive - a bit better than Mustang. Don't go looking to Dodge for ergonomics. I need to look underneath if there is some bracing or firmer fill needed to rectify.

 

[Gregs24]

I agree. It's the Mustang 'GT' so for and the vast majority in Germany I would say that we don't consider the Mustang a proper sportscar. It's a GT and mostly used as such. It's also sporty but it's not a sportscar.

A 1200kg car would be great but with all these modern regulations it's almost impossible to build such a car today.

Alpine A110 is only 1100kg

 

[Hack]

I wouldn't be quite so fast with that assertion. The Mustang and Camaro even with Recaro are comfortable for hours on end. The Challenger the seat pan sags and I squirm in it a LOT more than either other car. And I have the leather+fancy seat... My Audi sport seat (2012 S5) is very nice and supportive - a bit better than Mustang. Don't go looking to Dodge for ergonomics. I need to look underneath if there is some bracing or firmer fill needed to rectify.

My problem with the Mustang seats is the bolsters are slightly too narrow for me. Camaro and Challenger are better in that regard if you get the normal seats. But most people probably won't have that problem because they are smaller in size than I am. I sit on top of the Recaro bolsters and I can barely handle a 5 minute drive with those seats. I did ok at the track attack, but I think that Recaro was beat down enough. I fit into it, but it wouldn't be comfortable for a long drive. I think small (short or narrow) people can be comfortable in the Recaros. However, they don't have any lumbar or head rest adjustment, so if you are comfortable in them you are probably comfortable in most any seat that exists. Or you are telling a tale because you like the appearance of the Recaros and you prefer not to admit that is the only reason to get them.

I have driven all three pony cars and I was most comfortable by far in the Challenger. But comfort isn't my main priority currently.

 

[DeluxeStang]

Dude thinks over the air updates = SkyNet or some shit

My dude probably thinks 5g towers are being used to brainwash civilians or some shit.

 

[DeluxeStang]

Hi buddy. I just don't like being a sheep. Ahem, others are ok on being a sheep. And that's cool too. I just plan ahead, and move accordingly. Enjoy your S650!

It's usually the people who say "I don't like being a sheep" who are the biggest sheep's.

 

[Ericc B]

I'm just glad to see more people are coming around to the fact that S650 is basically a glorified S550 refresh. And mind you I totally understand why Ford went this route, the market is shrinking and times are uncertain at best. So from a business point of view this was probably the only way to keep the Mustang alive and we should all be happy that they did it this way.

 

[AlloyPony]

Ford Projects $3 Billion Loss on EV Segment This Year (msn.com)

The S650 may be a significant refresh of the Mustang, but it isn't an all-new vehicle. Whether or not that is disappointing depends on a subjective viewpoint. A few years ago, the plans may have been to introduce a new Mustang, but I suspect budget concerns limited what the development team was able to deliver. The amount of money Ford is ploughing into EV development is huge. It remains to be seen if it pays off.

They have two main competitors, both of which are ceasing production at the end of this year. So why would they invest billions in a new Mustang when they know the Mustang's days are numbered?

Since 2005, the Mustang team has been given a SMALL budget, which is why the S197 car was absolute trash wrapped around an excellent engine. I'm shocked they made the S550 as nice as what they did but I don't expect an all new car anytime soon, if ever.

 

[Garfy]

My money is on black - epic fail of the EV division outside of commercial run-about vans which will be the only thing keeping it afloat. And not just Ford.

2 years of world-wide recession if not depression will severely crimp consumer EV delivery - all those Lighting orders in the queue will disappear. Lithium will get cheaper, sure. Ford-E and Audi's division will be both spun off into a combined entity (arms-length joint venture?) so the colossal losses don't sink the parent companies who finally shed the Greenie blinders and resume full-rate ICE. With novel fuels perhaps.

The S650 barely rates a model designation IMO - should just be S555 or S560

I agree. GM has pretty much gone whole hog into EV. I heard somewhere that they plan to be completely EV in a few years which is a mistake. Ford is still committed to ICE (at least with the V8) as they KNOW companies and commercial fleets that have a lot of F-series trucks won't be going EV. They just are impractical. Who wants to pay their employee to sit around for 40 minutes to charge the battery up to 80% (the max you can go with a supercharger) only to get under 200 mile range or half that if you're pulling a trailer? No, EVs might be fine for city commuters but not for commercial entities. Does anyone see an EV semi-tractor soon going cross country? How about an EV commercial passenger airliner flying 2500 miles or more? No, it's a fad and it'll pass when people wake up from their greenie daydreams.

 

[Garfy]

You need to drive a Lotus or Alpine A110 to discover how liberating a lack of weight is. Everything comes alive and you don't need a huge heavy V million to power it. Ride is better because you can have softer springs as less weight to support so that better ride doesn't compromise handling.

This is why in the UK we find it amusing that you guys call the Mustang a 'sports car' when to us it is a big, relatively heavy GT. Sports cars need to weigh sub 1200kg and be like a water boatman! Two 85kg people in an Alpine A110 would still weigh 500kg less than an empty Mustang!

I agree and wish the 6G & 7G were lighter. However, I had a '71 Mach 1 that weighed 3200 lbs. and I have to say that my 6G GT that weighs more than 500 lbs. more handles so much better. Ever going over 100 mph feels stable and comfy compared to my '71. Obviously, this is more due to refinements in steering, suspension, etc. more than just the weight aspect. I also love the huge difference in performance and fuel economy. Yet, a 3000 lbs. car would've been much more desirable.

 

[Gregs24]

I agree. GM has pretty much gone whole hog into EV. I heard somewhere that they plan to be completely EV in a few years which is a mistake. Ford is still committed to ICE (at least with the V8) as they KNOW companies and commercial fleets that have a lot of F-series trucks won't be going EV. They just are impractical. Who wants to pay their employee to sit around for 40 minutes to charge the battery up to 80% (the max you can go with a supercharger) only to get under 200 mile range or half that if you're pulling a trailer? No, EVs might be fine for city commuters but not for commercial entities. Does anyone see an EV semi-tractor soon going cross country? How about an EV commercial passenger airliner flying 2500 miles or more? No, it's a fad and it'll pass when people wake up from their greenie daydreams.

Ford is completely committed to EV globally, ICE is a small legacy part of the business. In fact the F150 is looking very much at odds with global sales (as it always has) and the lightning is the future. Ford cannot survive as an F150 ICE producer in the US alone. Ford make more EV's outside the US than in it with models that are not even available in the US

Aviation will be hydrogen based for the future not BEV - Airbus already have a functioning hydrogen powered turbofan and the first hydrogen refuelling facility is to be installed at Toulouse.

Large commercial vehicles and plant will also be hydrogen based ICE - JCB already have this in action.

Hydrogen powered bus transport is already a thing in the UK

Tesla BEV based truck is a non starter although Amazon are already using final mile EV vans

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