Throttle House: Dark Horse Mustang vs 392 Challenger vs Camaro ( Drag Race , Roll Race & Track Times )

[OppoLock]

Hey mate, hope you don't mind me replying but I do so because Thomas and I care about the Mustang forum and i'd love to dispel any displeasure from our videos.

To address your first point about street driving and daily usage, we simply didn't have the car on the street. There was no press car available at the time of filming so instead thanks to the kindness of an owner, we used a flatbed to bring one directly to our track for filming that one day only.

Thanks to Toronto having seasons, to have waited any longer for Ford Canada to get their shit together would have meant potentially never making a piece of content with it to begin with. Apologies, I'd love to have lived with it and given impressions. But something tells me the Trofeo RS tires that were on it might have made daily duty a little less comfortable in downtown Toronto, what with all our streetcar tracks and all.

As for other options on the DH, we rarely if ever run through what a build/spec sheet would look like in our reviews. Let Raiti's Rides or someone else tell you that info, but something tells me you as a forum member are probably already filled in on that stuff so I'm not sure who that info would be for.

As for it being faster than the ZLE, that's totally fair to point out we didn't discuss it. I think mostly it was because of how shockingly quick the DH time was. All of what you see is recorded in real time. it is not rehearsed. It is not scripted. So my shock probably didn't help me gather my thoughts. But seeing as I'm here answering, the answer is most likely that the fixed dampers on the ZLE punished the lap time on our track, whereas the magneride in the Dark Horse paired with the ultra sticky tires (that perished very quickly) very much worked with our track, which is both bumpy and lacking in long straights.

As for the Camaro comparo, that is once again down to availability. GM canada (and USA) have ZERO camaros on their fleets. The SS 1LE we had previously featured was a 10-speed. We felt it more prudent to match the gearbox rather than the track kit setup, especially because it was only a straight-line race and the LT1 was the only one we could find in the time we had thanks to a very kind dealership. You'll notice no other upcoming comparo (Savagegeese, Hagerty) even features a Camaro AFAIK, because they couldn't find one at all. The good news for the Camaro crowd is that the one we did feature is likely even quicker in a straight line than the SS1LE. But yes in a perfect world, we would have had a manual ss1le.

As for our previous video where we compared a PP to a 1LE, that was a price matched comparison, and its not our fault that Ford nerfed the PP to match closer to a PP1 than a PP2. And at the very least, between the two videos, you now have all the laptimes required to make a full assessment.

Thanks,

James

P.S. We also went to the extra length to bring a Mach1 out as a service to the Mustang crowd, who have always wondered how it compared!!!

And HE’S JAMES. Appreciate what you, Thomas, and your crew do to put these videos together!

Sponsored

 

[Hack]

It would be interesting if they put the DH wheels and tires onto a GT PP with magneride. I’d be curious to know just how let down the PP is with its current wheel/tire setup.

It would be interesting, but if the new PP1 is anything like the previous versions, the suspension is so soft that I doubt the car would work that well on track anyway.

Hey mate, hope you don't mind me replying but I do so because Thomas and I care about the Mustang forum and i'd love to dispel any displeasure from our videos.

To address your first point about street driving and daily usage, we simply didn't have the car on the street. There was no press car available at the time of filming so instead thanks to the kindness of an owner, we used a flatbed to bring one directly to our track for filming that one day only.

Thanks to Toronto having seasons, to have waited any longer for Ford Canada to get their shit together would have meant potentially never making a piece of content with it to begin with. Apologies, I'd love to have lived with it and given impressions. But something tells me the Trofeo RS tires that were on it might have made daily duty a little less comfortable in downtown Toronto, what with all our streetcar tracks and all.

As for other options on the DH, we rarely if ever run through what a build/spec sheet would look like in our reviews. Let Raiti's Rides or someone else tell you that info, but something tells me you as a forum member are probably already filled in on that stuff so I'm not sure who that info would be for.

As for it being faster than the ZLE, that's totally fair to point out we didn't discuss it. I think mostly it was because of how shockingly quick the DH time was. All of what you see is recorded in real time. it is not rehearsed. It is not scripted. So my shock probably didn't help me gather my thoughts. But seeing as I'm here answering, the answer is most likely that the fixed dampers on the ZLE punished the lap time on our track, whereas the magneride in the Dark Horse paired with the ultra sticky tires (that perished very quickly) very much worked with our track, which is both bumpy and lacking in long straights.

As for the Camaro comparo, that is once again down to availability. GM canada (and USA) have ZERO camaros on their fleets. The SS 1LE we had previously featured was a 10-speed. We felt it more prudent to match the gearbox rather than the track kit setup, especially because it was only a straight-line race and the LT1 was the only one we could find in the time we had thanks to a very kind dealership. You'll notice no other upcoming comparo (Savagegeese, Hagerty) even features a Camaro AFAIK, because they couldn't find one at all. The good news for the Camaro crowd is that the one we did feature is likely even quicker in a straight line than the SS1LE. But yes in a perfect world, we would have had a manual ss1le.

As for our previous video where we compared a PP to a 1LE, that was a price matched comparison, and its not our fault that Ford nerfed the PP to match closer to a PP1 than a PP2. And at the very least, between the two videos, you now have all the laptimes required to make a full assessment.

Thanks,

James

P.S. We also went to the extra length to bring a Mach1 out as a service to the Mustang crowd, who have always wondered how it compared!!!

Wow, that was a very detailed and well thought-out response. Thank you for taking so much time. I do appreciate that you had the Mach 1 in the video.

You know, I was considering what I like and don't like about some previous videos from Throttle House, and I think this one might have just not had enough James in it. And by that I mean "fun".

I guess it's appropriate to feature Thomas heavily when the review is track only, and some of the brevity results from having the car such a short time. I did see that you had trailered it, but I guess I assumed if an owner would let you drive on track that person wouldn't mind a little street driving as well. Thanks for clarifying as that was a big point for me as well as the transmission in the 1LE.

I'm not planning to purchase an S650 due to price, but being a Ford person I'm surprised and disappointed if Ford actually removed a rubber isolator from the steering with the goal of improving feel, but instead made it more vague. It will be interesting over time to read what the forum members here think about the car.

 

[Dub347sbf]

My favorite part of the video was when they said if the 21 Mach 1 was on the Trofeos that they think it would have a faster lap than the DH.

So a modified Mach 1 could (maybe) beat a stock DH, color me surprised... cant wait to see a DH on the CF wheels on the lightning lap this year. I dont think i have seen one review with the CF wheels, and it is already smashing non-shelby mustang times on the track.

 

[Mustang406]

"Modified" by having same tires? Lol. Since that was a 3 year old customers car were those Cup 2s even new?

I'm sorry I just expect that a car costing close to 80k would obliterate the previous model.

 

[Dub347sbf]

"Modified" by having same tires? Lol. Since that was a 3 year old customers car were those Cup 2s even new?

I'm sorry I just expect that a car costing close to 80k would obliterate the previous model.

..... it did obliterate the previous model. The car cost no where close to 80k. My MSRP is 71k with Handling Package. The Mach 1 HPs i was looking at last year were about 69k for the same spec. 2k difference if you bought day 1.

And that car in the video is modified outside of the tires first of all. Second, yes the tires count. Stock for stock the DH is faster, not even using the optional CF wheels.

The M1 is cool. The DH is faster stock.

 

[Mustang406]

..... it did obliterate the previous model. The car cost no where close to 80k. My MSRP is 71k with Handling Package. The Mach 1 HPs i was looking at last year were about 69k for the same spec. 2k difference if you bought day 1.

And that car in the video is modified outside of the tires first of all. Second, yes the tires count. Stock for stock the DH is faster, not even using the optional CF wheels.

The M1 is cool. The DH is faster stock.

What makes you think the Mach 1 was modified? Because they added fog lamps and painted the stock rims red? If that car had any performance modifications I think the Throtle House guys would have said so. They are too professional not to.

 

[agreywolfe]

What makes you think the Mach 1 was modified? Because they added fog lamps and painted the stock rims red? If that car had any performance modifications I think the Throtle House guys would have said so. They are too professional not to.

the GT wing and the Brey-krause harness bar with racing harness should kind of give it away that this car is more track built than the full stock DH

 

[ThreePedalPlow]

What makes you think the Mach 1 was modified? Because they added fog lamps and painted the stock rims red? If that car had any performance modifications I think the Throtle House guys would have said so. They are too professional not to.

Did the Mach 1 have rear seat delete in this comparison? Might be getting my videos mixed up.

 

[Mustang406]

Did the Mach 1 have rear seat delete in this comparison? Might be getting my videos mixed up.

Yes it did. This Mach 1 had the rear seat delete.

 

[Dena]

I only have just over 300 miles on mine but I can feel the transmission loosing up over when I first took delivery. I think those are precision devices and like the rest of the car need some break-in before they get where they should be. Granted some it could be me getting used to it.
One other thing I suspect is the reason for the preformance difference is the nearly flat torque curve. I can feel it in mine where as low as 2,000 RPMs the engine kicks me in the backside. Total horse power is an important number but if the engine only puts out torque near the peek number, you're not going to do well when you have to run at a lower RPM number.
Suspension and tires are important but if you don't have the whole package, you will not turn out the best of numbers.

 

[Zcarmenb28]

the GT wing and the Brey-krause harness bar with racing harness should kind of give it away that this car is more track built than the full stock DH

Pretty sure it was a GT500 CFTP wing. Not a GT wing.

 

[agreywolfe]

Pretty sure it was a GT500 CFTP wing. Not a GT wing.

i dont think it is, obviously no close ups of it, but the GT500 CFTP wing doesnt have exposed silver angle adjustments, it looks more to me like the APR GT200 wing, but the logos out of place so i cant be 100% sure on it. Either way the exact model doesnt matter i just pointed it out to show that this car was modified to perform better on track vs a stock Mach 1. Nothing against the TH comparison, after all, they said themselves that Ford told them to kick rocks when they wanted to do the Mach 1 legit.

 

[Zig]

by chance is the result ‘official’, didn’t notice it on the leaderboard on your website

https://www.thethrottlehouse.com/leaderboard-and-track-times/

 

[newmoon]

Well that pretty much seals the deal as to who is the leader in muscle cars for 2023 and on! That was a sound beating of the other two brands. I will agree with others that the price tag is just too high though. My local dealer has one at msrp I heard if anyone is interested.

 

[Baldilocks]

This will all be revisited next year when the new Challenger arrives standard with 520hp and more torque than the Dark Horse as well. Probably be priced comparable to the GT.

Sponsored