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Stangmode from YouTube says S550 will be last Gen ICE GT500?!!!

Ace

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I agree, having ICE + BEV is pretty much impossible on one car. You have to develop two completely different platforms for that. If you want to see why, take a look at the Mach-E. You can easily spot the big amount of batteries stuffed in the floor of the car, from the ground to the interior floor there is about a 4 inch gap where the batteries are. But the overall ground clearance of the car is not higher than the regular S550 Mustang. Which works on an SUV since a high seating position fits, but you don't want your regular mustang to gain 4 inch of heigth to be BEV ready.

I already think the seating position in the Mustang is a bit too high, which takes away a proper feeling of sitting in a sportcars. But what would you do with the neccessary battery space (to reach a good electric range) if you put an ICE engine in the front? Also weigth distrubition would be really though to get right for both engines.

Dodge recently confirmed that the current Challenger & Chargers are the last ICE ones. Their nextgen E-Muscle Car will run parallel to them for a while, but after that the ICEs are gone for them. Rumors about the Camaro also say the next one (mabye even named differently) will be a BEV. So i am a bit worried with production start not before January 2023 what Ford is actually doing with S650. Releasing a new ICE or Hybrid car only a year before the competition brings their BEV car seems like a huge risk since it have to sell until around 2030. I think they pretty much have to release pure BEV Mustang (not Mach-E) around 2025 to have something on the market, so I am not sure how far Ford wants to push ICEs/Hybrids for the future
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zackmd1

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I agree, having ICE + BEV is pretty much impossible on one car. You have to develop two completely different platforms for that. If you want to see why, take a look at the Mach-E. You can easily spot the big amount of batteries stuffed in the floor of the car, from the ground to the interior floor there is about a 4 inch gap where the batteries are. But the overall ground clearance of the car is not higher than the regular S550 Mustang. Which works on an SUV since a high seating position fits, but you don't want your regular mustang to gain 4 inch of heigth to be BEV ready.

I already think the seating position in the Mustang is a bit too high, which takes away a proper feeling of sitting in a sportcars. But what would you do with the neccessary battery space (to reach a good electric range) if you put an ICE engine in the front? Also weigth distrubition would be really though to get right for both engines.

Dodge recently confirmed that the current Challenger & Chargers are the last ICE ones. Their nextgen E-Muscle Car will run parallel to them for a while, but after that the ICEs are gone for them. Rumors about the Camaro also say the next one (mabye even named differently) will be a BEV. So i am a bit worried with production start not before January 2023 what Ford is actually doing with S650. Releasing a new ICE or Hybrid car only a year before the competition brings their BEV car seems like a huge risk since it have to sell until around 2030. I think they pretty much have to release pure BEV Mustang (not Mach-E) around 2025 to have something on the market, so I am not sure how far Ford wants to push ICEs/Hybrids for the future
Exactly why I am saying it doesn’t make since for Ford to dump R&D into a new ICE platform…

I wouldn’t think there would be much modification to fit a small 1.1kw battery pack in the S550 chassis (think no more spare tire bay) for mild hybrid powertrains. Maybe they do still roll it to s650 but the changes are going to be minimal at best.

That leaves the door open (and R&D funds) for a BEV Mustang on the GE2 electric platform that they are already testing with Mach E mules. I think gone are the days of Mustang having its own unique platform.
 

Ericc B

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You can easily spot the big amount of batteries stuffed in the floor of the car, from the ground to the interior floor there is about a 4 inch gap where the batteries are. But the overall ground clearance of the car is not higher than the regular S550 Mustang. Which works on an SUV since a high seating position fits, but you don't want your regular mustang to gain 4 inch of heigth to be BEV ready.
Exactly that. They have been able to cleverly hide this fact by making the doors cover those extra inches in floor height, but if you open them or look a bit deeper into the body in white it is 100% fact that it is impossible to build a well proportioned coupe on the current Mach-E platform.

So:
- Building a coupe based on the current Mach-E platform is not an option;
- Stuffing a full size battery pack into the S550 platform is not an option;
- Developing a whole new platform that is both BEV and ICE capable is highly unlikely both from a cost and an engineering standpoint;
- Model year 2023 is way too early for going full EV for Mustang.

Conclusions:
- S650 will be an ICE car;
- Most likely based on (a mildly updated) S550 platform;
- With possible 4wd hybrid option for export and northern markets;
- A full electric Mustang coupe will be a completely different car;
- Which is still multiple years away at this point in time;
- And will at some point be introduced parallel to S650;
- S650 is likely to be the last ICE Mustang ever and stay in production for as long as there is enough demand in markets that allow the sales of ICE vehicles.

The only uncertain factor in this is how long Ford in the end can afford to keep S650 in production, which will be decided majorly by US political developments, and partially influenced by political developments in Europe and Asia/Oceanic. Personally I don't think the ICE Mustang vehicle will eventually be killed by future lack of demand for it, but it will at some point be killed by emission politics. The European government has already made a significant move towards this with their extreme emission penalties, which have deleted the EcoBoost from the EU market and will almost certainly result in a hybrid being the only S650 model to be offered here.
 

Twin Turbo

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You guys make perfect sense.

To draw some parallels, I still think there's time for one last ICE hurrah for Mustang. You've probably seen the new Nissan Z revealed yesterday. This is the "all new" Z, although even Nissan have admitted it uses the previous 370Z platform, so it keeps the exact same wheelbase, but has a whole new body, interior and engine. I see the same approach being used for S650. Using the existing S550 platform, so all the hard points remain the same, but an all new body and interior. I only see minor engine updates though, plus the potential addition of hybrid tech, which the Z doesn't have.

Back in 1964, Mustang created the pony car market. With Camaro and Challenger becoming BEVs in the near future, I can see Mustang being the last traditional pony car as we know it.

The marketing folk can argue that Mach E means Mustang was also the first BEV, but the Mach E is so far removed from a pony car it doesn't count in my opinion.

So, I see S650 being available as a pure ICE or ICE + hybrid fastback/convertible from 2023 to perhaps 2030. I can then see an all new BEV Mustang fastback/convertible being launched around 2028 and the two being sold alongside each other for a couple of years.

I guess part of my point is, even the Japanese, traditionally a very forward thinking automotive nation, believe there is relevance in launching a new traditional sports car now. I believe Mustang will follow suit with S650. As a small point of reference, the new Z is a '23MY car.........exactly what we're expecting S650 to be.
 


because_murica

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You guys make perfect sense.

To draw some parallels, I still think there's time for one last ICE hurrah for Mustang. You've probably seen the new Nissan Z revealed yesterday. This is the "all new" Z, although even Nissan have admitted it uses the previous 370Z platform, so it keeps the exact same wheelbase, but has a whole new body, interior and engine. I see the same approach being used for S650. Using the existing S550 platform, so all the hard points remain the same, but an all new body and interior. I only see minor engine updates though, plus the potential addition of hybrid tech, which the Z doesn't have.

Back in 1964, Mustang created the pony car market. With Camaro and Challenger becoming BEVs in the near future, I can see Mustang being the last traditional pony car as we know it.

The marketing folk can argue that Mach E means Mustang was also the first BEV, but the Mach E is so far removed from a pony car it doesn't count in my opinion.

So, I see S650 being available as a pure ICE or ICE + hybrid fastback/convertible from 2023 to perhaps 2030. I can then see an all new BEV Mustang fastback/convertible being launched around 2028 and the two being sold alongside each other for a couple of years.

I guess part of my point is, even the Japanese, traditionally a very forward thinking automotive nation, believe there is relevance in launching a new traditional sports car now. I believe Mustang will follow suit with S650. As a small point of reference, the new Z is a '23MY car.........exactly what we're expecting S650 to be.
I was following the new Z very closely up until it's reveal on Tuesday. I was initially enamored with the Z Proto, but, as time went on, I don't really know why, I seem to have just fallen out of love with it. The overall design is great, however, the hard front angle seems unresolved to me and a bit odd.

I then found the Zephyr Reflection concept, and well, down the rabbit hole we went lol. Now, I'm here, hoping you are all right about the S650 being the best damn Mustang there ever was, as it should be, given it will more than likely be the last pure ICE Mustang.
 
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because_murica

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Regarding StangMode: at the onset of the pandemic in the U.S., StangMode actually posted a video letting people know that he had lost his day job, and was unclear as to how he was going to make his payments on his GT500. He genuinely believed he was going to have to sell his GT500, and that came across clear as day on video - the man was devastated.

Despite everything that was going on, my firm was actually still hiring for remote positions. I therefore reached out to StangMode with the possibility of a job offer, but he declined. We only had a very brief exchange, but he seemed like a genuinely nice person.

Then the giveaways started, and he went full YouTuber, and I don't just mean that he started being a full time YouTuber lol.
 

BoostRabbitGT

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I was following the new Z very closely up until it's reveal on Tuesday. I was initially enamored with the Z Proto, but, as time went on, I don't really know why, I seem to have just fallen out of love with it. The overall design is great, however, the hard front angle seems unresolved to me and a bit odd.

I then found the Zephyr Reflection concept, and well, down the rabbit hole we went lol. Now, I'm here, hoping you are all right about the S650 being the best damn Mustang there ever was, as it should be, given it will more than likely be the last pure ICE Mustang.
Two things keep me from liking the new Z more than I likely should. 1) The front grill (I feel like the lower rectangle section could've been closed off and it'd look less grill-happy), and 2) It's a 2-seater. It's still high on my "Cars to Consider in 2025" list (mainly because I still want to learn how to drive manual), but it's a car I'll most likely lease rather than seek to own---at this point I'm only considering the next Mustang coupe/[sedan-variant] as a keeper. And I really hope that even if ICE vehicles are no longer sold after 2035, I can at least still drive my ICE vehicles by and after that time.
 

llinthicum1

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I agree that a BEV true Mustang (coupe/convertible) will probably be on a separate BEV platform from the ICE Mustang. I don't anticipate seeing a BEV Mustang sports coupe until 2030 at the earliest. There's still too many hurdles that BEV vehicles in general are going to have to overcome; e.g., lack of range, long charging times, and lack of infrastructure (not enough charging stations). By 2030, with advances in battery technology, these hurdles may have been resolved and Ford would have had 10 years to work out all of the bugs that current Mach-e owners are experiencing. Also, by 2030, the cost of BEVs should be much lower compared to today. Consumers purchasing a BEV in 2021 are paying a premium because of the new technology. Just like flat TV screens in the past, people paid $10,000; now, you can buy for $300.

Just one other point, I like the Mach-e, but the biggest drawback I see is the instrumentation and dash. I think Ford was trying to copy Tesla which was a mistake. While its better than Tesla (for example Mach-e offers a display in front of the driver), It just doesn't work for a sports car. So I hope Ford is listening and puts a proper dash and instrumentation in the Mustang and the Mach-e; e.g., Audi e-tron.
 

Ericc B

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I don't see why you couldn't stuff the battery pack in the trunk.
Weight distribution. The entire suspension is designed based on a relative large weight in the front of the car. If you remove that and put a ton of batteries plus an electric motor in the rear you will end up with 10:90 weight distribution instead of 60:40. You will be doing wheelies even when you feather the pedal driving through a school zone.

To get around that you'd have to put at least half of the batteries in the engine bay and the rest in the trunk and then you'd have to run 5 miles of cooling lines back and forth through the drive shaft tunnel to cool them. Imagine that gigantic cooling line mess that Sandy Munro discovered in the Mach-E except to the power of 3.

And for those who like to have a good engineering laugh, this video is both informative and entertaining :)
 
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llinthicum1

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I wouldn't mind if Ford kept a slightly modified s550 around longer. Update the interior, add a few more features as standard, and call it a day. Ford could sell a ton of these thru the remainder of the decade without the additional investment for a new model.
 

IceGamer

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I wouldn't mind if Ford kept a slightly modified s550 around longer. Update the interior, add a few more features as standard, and call it a day. Ford could sell a ton of these thru the remainder of the decade without the additional investment for a new model.
I don’t see Ford selling „a ton of these thru the remainder of the decade without the additional investment for a new model”… The current version is already pretty dated. Don’t get me wrong, I like the car but it’s getting old.

Maybe it’s just me but I definitely want a NEW Mustang. The exterior is fine but I wouldn’t mind a bigger overhaul. The interior on the other hand is almost a “no-go” for a 50-60.000$ car. It looks cheap and dated. I’m not talking about the overall layout but the materials used, build quality and tech in general. Besides, the EU and US versions have different tech build in because the platform wouldn’t allow the S550 to have electric side mirrors and blind spot at the same time … Something with the wiring if I remember correctly.

I hope that they ditch the outdated platform or at least update it. I know CD6 ain’t happening but if Ford wants to go down the Dodge route they have to update the platform no matter what. Call it S650 or called S550.2 I don’t care but with what Ford has at hands they cannot expect sales to remain strong.
 

zackmd1

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I don’t see Ford selling „a ton of these thru the remainder of the decade without the additional investment for a new model”… The current version is already pretty dated. Don’t get me wrong, I like the car but it’s getting old.

Maybe it’s just me but I definitely want a NEW Mustang. The exterior is fine but I wouldn’t mind a bigger overhaul. The interior on the other hand is almost a “no-go” for a 50-60.000$ car. It looks cheap and dated. I’m not talking about the overall layout but the materials used, build quality and tech in general. Besides, the EU and US versions have different tech build in because the platform wouldn’t allow the S550 to have electric side mirrors and blind spot at the same time … Something with the wiring if I remember correctly.

I hope that they ditch the outdated platform or at least update it. I know CD6 ain’t happening but if Ford wants to go down the Dodge route they have to update the platform no matter what. Call it S650 or called S550.2 I don’t care but with what Ford has at hands they cannot expect sales to remain strong.
I can almost guarantee you that the majority of people buying the 2 door coupe do NOT care what platform it is riding on. As long as they keep it fresh and competitive people will buy it regardless of the platform it still rides on. You are more then likely NOT getting a all new ICE Mustang, BEV platform yes, ICE no.
 

Ace

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Challenger and Charger are still build on the LX platform from 2004, which bases on the 1995 Mercedes W210. As sales proof a lot of people don't care about how old the platform is. While I prefer having the Muscle Cars going into the direction of being real sportscars the last 5 years proofed that the typical buyer just wanted an affordable practical useful car for the whole family.

And I think Ford is smart enough to go for that. I don't think we will see big performance gains besides having a nice 0-60 number thanks to Hybrid AWD. Instead the Mustang7 could focus on having more space, getting an update-to-date interior (hopefully not with the awful Mach-E infotainment screen) and keep an affordable price.

But I am still wondering why Ford had a C8 for their own tests at their plant. Of course carmakers always take a deep look into the competition and deconstruct their cars to understand how they did things. But I hope Ford has the urge to build something that will compete with the Corvette models. With the Z06 going for a flatplane V8, I would totally love if Ford build a crazy Gen 7 Shelby that wants to keep up (of course being frontengine vs midengine is not fair).
 

gadgtfreek

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I like the "last hurrah" Z, hopefully, Ford can do something like that. I still want to own two mustangs going into the 2030's.
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