S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she?

[Bikeman315]

Solid state battery tech is the holy grail. It's been perpetually "5 years away" for a few decades now...

Interesting.

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[Bikeman315]

...must...resist...urge to...talk about...

...resolve weakening....

...resistance fading...

...so...do you think the S650 will have a manual option

Seriously though, how likely do you think it is that the Tremec completely replaces the MT82? Or, will it be reserved for "special" models?

 

[GT 550]

The Mach-E drivetrain in an actual fastback Mustang would be pretty dope. I'm still waiting on the batteries not to suck, and by that I mean 1:1 equivalent to the convenience of gas right now. 5 minutes from 0-100%, at every corner in America, and no reduction in range over time.

This ^. Unfortunately there's conspicuously little evidence of a discussion by manufacturers, who are charging ahead (get it?) investing in the tech and pushing the product, on how this is supposed to work. And even less by governments on how associated industries will be unwound and the downstream effects managed.

Possibly a gamble by manufacturers et al that EVs will be adopted in sufficient numbers (MachE = SUV) to drive a noisy social engineering campaign claiming that the public is demanding access to the product. This potentially pressures govt to use taxes to create infrastructure to allow manufacturers to sell their product. Cynical maybe, but you can bet that manufacturers wouldn't even consider EVs unless they felt there was a significant payday coming and there's simply no way they'll fork out for the infrastructure or associated costs. Instead of consumers driving manufacturers, the manufacturers are driving consumers.

I'm not particularly opposed to EVs but it'd be good if manufacturers would Pony Up with a discussion of the realities instead of trying to apparently direct consumers onto a product that's critically dependent on public funded infrastructure and has so many potentially downstream effects.

And they also need to talk about a really good way of dialing up whatever highly realistic engine sound you want in your EV ie Coyote/429/Nascar/F1/Spitfire Merlin

/end rant.

 

[zackmd1]

Ok my big theory time.....


That 4 door coupe we keep hearing about is the next BEV "Mustang" based on the Mach E platform and the engine options that were suppose to be associated with that model are actually the engine choices for the S650... (Publications have a habit of combining leaks into one narrative when they might not actually go together)

That would help explain why Ford is benchmarking the Porsche Taycan and it would be a direct answer to the Dodge BEV (Next Gen Charger). That leaves room for the 2 Door coupe to stick around as the "Classic" Mustang with a V8 while they can have the BEV model that appeals to more people being that it has 4 doors. If the Audi E-tron GT is anything to go off of, that 4 door coupe could actually look pretty damn good. If you look at the exterior dimensions of the Mach E, the length is actually less then the coupe while its wheel base is about 10" longer. Would be very easy IMO to rebody that skateboard to a 4 door coupe and keep the size in check and keep the fastback profile intact.

The S650 then is a refreshed S550 with minimal platform changes (changes required for the hybrid powertrains) and a re-skin inside and out.

 

[gadgtfreek]

It does seem the Camaro may be bowing out soon, just reading the tea leaves. CHevy isn't even doing anything to compete with the TRX or Raptor R... Could be the last-gen coming up of full-on V8's from Ford and Dodge.

 

[Ace]

It does seem the Camaro may be bowing out soon, just reading the tea leaves. CHevy isn't even doing anything to compete with the TRX or Raptor R... Could be the last-gen coming up of full-on V8's from Ford and Dodge.

Guess they are busy cashing in the Midengine V8 money

 

[zackmd1]

It does seem the Camaro may be bowing out soon, just reading the tea leaves. CHevy isn't even doing anything to compete with the TRX or Raptor R... Could be the last-gen coming up of full-on V8's from Ford and Dodge.

There was a rumor awhile ago saying the Camaro would end with MY23 and come back in MY24-25 as an all electric. I guess time will tell if that’s true.

 

[Twin Turbo]

I'd expect a Gen 4 Coyote. 480hp minimum, but it'd be cool of they make it 500hp n/a as this will likely be the last V8 Mustang. Perhaps the 500hp n/a may be reserved for another SE (Mach 1 or Boss).

I really REALLY want a Coyote hybrid though, as this may be the only way a V8 could be justified in Europe/Australia etc. Whilst a pure V8 could still be sold in Europe for a few years yet, the hybrid would make it more acceptable. BUT......can Mustang alone justify the development costs, as this setup isn't used anywhere else. Otherwise, I'd assume/hope its the Ecoboost 6 hybrid, as per the F150/Explorer.

Although I'd also like to see the smaller 2.7 or 3.0 Ecoboost V6 offered, even if only in the US.

It's crazy that we really have nothing more than hopes and dreams, no concrete information. So little has been leaked.....in fact, I think @amk91's Linkedin find (showing a job stating S650/23MY/Program Engineer name etc) is STILL the only snippet of information we've seen. Ford's clamping down on supplier leaks seems to be working, for Mustang at least.

PLEASE FORD.....THROW. US. A. BONE !!!!!

 

[Twin Turbo]

I, too, prefer a straight six. I've had a couple of BMWs and my 330i had a sweet, sweet engine. But for me, I always lusted after Ford's "European" V6s, as they were considered large engines for the UK, back in the 70s and 80s. I had several 2.8i "Cologne" V6s in Capris (not the Fox body Mercury Capri, but the earlier one).......160hp was pure muscle compared to the 4 cylinder 88hp, which my first Capri had

Anyway, I'm at risk of derailing my own thread.

C'MON FORD, GIVE US SOMETHING S650 TO TALK ABOUT!!

 

[zackmd1]

What's your prediction for the V8 options? Do we get a "gen4 Coyote"?, an NA Predator?, a downsized turbo motor?

I'd love for the Predator block to wind up as the base motor.

Looking into my chrystal ball….

I would expect to see a Gen 4 but with subtle changes that are not as extensive as the Gen 3 was. Got to keep in mind, it makes very little business sense to dump a lot of R&D into an engine that has a very limited lifespan…. Ford is moving away from the coyote in the F150 which is the main reason/justification for R&D efforts.

I’d expect any Gen 4 to be one of two things…. A parts bin upgrade to the Gen 3 meaning some Predator parts make their way into the GT engine or an Atkinson cycle coyote solely designed for hybrid power trains. Either way I’d expect around 480hp.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

Ok my big theory time.....


That 4 door coupe we keep hearing about is the next BEV "Mustang" based on the Mach E platform and the engine options that were suppose to be associated with that model are actually the engine choices for the S650... (Publications have a habit of combining leaks into one narrative when they might not actually go together)

That would help explain why Ford is benchmarking the Porsche Taycan and it would be a direct answer to the Dodge BEV (Next Gen Charger). That leaves room for the 2 Door coupe to stick around as the "Classic" Mustang with a V8 while they can have the BEV model that appeals to more people being that it has 4 doors. If the Audi E-tron GT is anything to go off of, that 4 door coupe could actually look pretty damn good. If you look at the exterior dimensions of the Mach E, the length is actually less then the coupe while its wheel base is about 10" longer. Would be very easy IMO to rebody that skateboard to a 4 door coupe and keep the size in check and keep the fastback profile intact.

The S650 then is a refreshed S550 with minimal platform changes (changes required for the hybrid powertrains) and a re-skin inside and out.

If it ends up costing as much as a Taycan or even a Model S, shouldn't they just make it a Lincoln instead of going the "4-door Mustang" route? I'm fine with either honestly, but who knows if I'll be able to afford one or even a traditional Mustang coupe before 2035...

Back to engine choices, I can't see them ditching the EcoBoost just yet. I'd like to see the PowerBoost V6 or even a Coybrid (pronounced KAI-brid) V8. Question is, would either cannibalize the EcoBoost sales if they turn out to have better fuel economy than the 'Boost and/or come with optional AWD?

 

[zackmd1]

If it ends up costing as much as a Taycan or even a Model S, shouldn't they just make it a Lincoln instead of going the "4-door Mustang" route? I'm fine with either honestly, but who knows if I'll be able to afford one or even a traditional Mustang coupe before 2035...

Back to engine choices, I can't see them ditching the EcoBoost just yet. I'd like to see the PowerBoost V6 or even a Coybrid (pronounced KAI-brid) V8. Question is, would either cannibalize the EcoBoost sales if they turn out to have better fuel economy than the 'Boost and/or come with optional AWD?

So if they built it on the Mach E platform, they could have multiple trim levels ranging from affordable to Taycan money. So they could have a RWD with around 400hp, AWD with 500-600hp, and the "GT" with 600-800hp and range in price from the mid $40ks to $80-90k just like the Mach E. Got to remember that an electric platform is ALOT more scalable then a traditional platform. With a traditional platform you have to worry about engine size, weight, cooling requirements, fuel requirements, etc... With electric, "all you have to do" is add a motor and up the power with more battery cells with the price scaling accordingly.

I believe the rumors were a hybrid 2.3l, a hybrid 3.0l, and a NA V8 with the V8 actually positioned as the middle option in the lineup. That 3.0 can do 500hp and over 600tq in hybrid form.

 

[Sivi70980]

Maybe it's more COVID delays...

 

[amk91]

I honestly don’t know what the hell is going on with these delays. My S650 contact no longer works for Ford, my other contact is not close enough to the program, and Ford is being ridiculously tight lipped, as if it no longer even exists.

I am concerned how the chief engineer is no longer on it either and don’t even know who his replacement is, since no one will tell me.

Has it become a 2024 model is my question, as the lack of discussion and non-M7G intel on this is so disappointing. Ford and the media overhyped the S550 so much, a lot more pre-reveal traffic came of that back in 2011-2013.

They just keep pushing back dates and the S550 remains longer on the vine. We will not see 2022 units in showrooms until February at earliest, which was never the plan with original summer 2022 changeover from S550 to S650. A calendar year 2023 release seems extremely likely.

We’re not even seeing mules anymore, is my biggest frustration nor any additional insider talk regarding this. I hate being a source on a vehicle I have no proximity to, because no news entities are doing their part following S650 themselves.

It’s like the automotive media doesn’t even care and would rather copy paste info from this forum instead, on the rare chance that we get our own intel at all.

Every new Mustang, a year and a half out, we know about great detail. From not only ourselves who have our own insiders at times, but decent media coverage filling in the blanks.

 

[IceGamer]

I honestly don’t know what the hell is going on with these delays. My S650 contact no longer works for Ford, my other contact is not close enough to the program, and Ford is being ridiculously tight lipped, as if it no longer even exists.

I am concerned how the chief engineer is no longer on it either and don’t even know who his replacement is, since no one will tell me.

Has it become a 2024 model is my question, as the lack of discussion and non-M7G intel on this is so disappointing. Ford and the media overhyped the S550 so much, a lot more pre-reveal traffic came of that back in 2011-2013.

They just keep pushing back dates and the S550 remains longer on the vine. We will not see 2022 units in showrooms until February at earliest, which was never the plan with original summer 2022 changeover from S550 to S650. A calendar year 2023 release seems extremely likely.

We’re not even seeing mules anymore, is my biggest frustration nor any additional insider talk regarding this. I hate being a source on a vehicle I have no proximity to, because no news entities are doing their part following S650 themselves.

It’s like the automotive media doesn’t even care and would rather copy paste info from this forum instead, on the rare chance that we get our own intel at all.

Every new Mustang, a year and a half out, we know about great detail. From not only ourselves who have our own insiders at times, but decent media coverage filling in the blanks.

That does sound quite concerning… In addition, I thinks it’s almost granted that S650 will be pushed back… Ford has problems building the F150 and I doubt they have any semiconductors to spare for anything other than the cash cow itself. Besides, wouldn’t a new car with modern tech require many more chips? I would think so…

I get and agree with your argument regarding the current automotive media… I think it has partially to do with who the media is… Back in 2013 the automotive media consisted of large magazines and TV-shows, whereas now “automotive media” is basically anyone with a camera that talks about car related stuff on Youtube… Most of these guys don’t have any connections what so ever and take their news from guys like you and forums like this. In addition, the old media is struggling in general and is therefore focused on EV’s and stuff…

Anyhow, thank you for your honesty and openness. I might have a question though: do you think S650 is just delayed or might Ford eventually have axed the program all together and will facelift the current Stang with what’s left of the program? Seems unlikely but in these crazy EV or nothing times I get anxieties reading posts like yours ;) So maybe it’s just a new policy and Ford wants to remain as tight lipped as possible due to major leaks in the past?!

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