Report: Mustang AWD and Hybrid Plans Cancelled

[BoostRabbitGT]

I did. 4.2l v8 S5 manual. It's a really nice machine. If Ford did a quattro+stick to the Mustang esp the EB I'd buy it. Seems Ford and VW are 'partners' in several ways. Why don't they just license the quattro I wonder. Especially since VW quit making stick-shift versions of it. So it's not like there would be competition between the marques.

Ah, the Audi 5s. I'm a fan of their sportbacks. A shame they're clear out of my targeted price range though ($50K is my max, $55K if I'm willing to stretch, but that's a huge IF).

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[shogun32]

Ah, the Audi 5s. I'm a fan of their sportbacks. A shame they're clear out of my targeted price range though ($50K is my max, $55K if I'm willing to stretch, but that's a huge IF).

25k used for 2012. none of the new ones (2016+) are V8 or naturally-aspirated, or have manual trans. Audi has seriously lost the plot. Such a pity.

 

[AllthePonies]

What if Ford comes out with an all new exterior and interior based on the new Explorer platform and upgrades the engine internals like the 2012 Boss Mustang for 460-560+ hp, depending on the trim? Wouldn’t that be enough?

Maybe they do something hybrid and AWD at the mid cycle refresh depending on sales/emissions regulations/ICE bans or maybe they just pivot to a huge HP electric vehicle sooner than later. The emissions regulations are making it very hard to continue down the path of an affordable pony car, especially one with a V8.

Either way, I’m pretty excited that Ford is going to close out the ICE version of the Mustang with a manual, a V8, and (hopefully) a few more special performance packages.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

At this point are there any surprises left that people can realistically hope for with the S650? Or is it down to just about the equivalent of "please enjoy the refreshed exterior and interior folks"?

 

[Hack]

your “point” was a straw man.
No one wants to buy a grocery getter with a horse sticker.

people want the Mustang. The pony car. Not an SUV masquerading as one.

We can look to the past and see the mistakes. Putting a mustang badge on a pinto was t so great.

I can agree with the things you were saying in the beginning of the post. The S550 is pretty SUV-ish. It's almost 4,000 lbs (some versions are over 4,000 lbs). It has a high center of gravity. When I sit in my GR86 my eyes are below the door mirrors on the S550, and I'm 6'4".

I think the Mustang II was a tremendous success. It sold huge numbers. I agree that it was anemic. However, it was an actual sporty car with good suspension in it. The 1974 Mustang weighed about 2700 lbs. Actually less than my GR86! Now that's a SPORTY car.

"people want the Mustang. The pony car. Not an SUV masquerading as one. "

Mustang trunk huge.
Requesting new trunk lid to accommodate 4x8 sheet of plywood hanging out the back.
Already fits my kayak.

Full tools plus flat towed my vintage 79 mustang racecar.

Uhm yea.... S550 is an SUV. It weighs the same as one.

A 1400hp awd stang would be fun, but heavy and just not competitive with Chevy, BMW and Porsche on track. And thats the problem, there are fewer places to enjoy these levels of power and the corporate bean counters see the straight line street racing crowd as a narrow market that inherently has less career money to spend on cars.
Expensive trucks? great, people use them for work.

Grab an explorer and order the 10R80 AWD (from police/Lincoln models) and swap in the Coyote. Tune for high rpm to keep torque low and make the 10R80 survive. Get that running and then try again with an S650 chassis. You "should" notice some changes to help support the effort in the S650.
If not, I was lied to... To Be Continued....

PS Ford engineers. Grab a previous gen X5M as a test mule. Swap in a coyote AWD 10R80 setup. Let it eat.

I agree. Big heavy vehicles are definitely $$$$$ on track as well. You have to put 315 section width tires on them and those tires go bye bye awfully quickly.

It would be great if the Mustang would move back in the direction of its roots.

At this point are there any surprises left that people can realistically hope for with the S650? Or is it down to just about the equivalent of "please enjoy the refreshed exterior and interior folks"?

I'm still holding out hope that the weight and size will come down a little (improved performance), but you are essentially right. IMO it's a fun conversation to have, and I hope that Ford pays some attention to what current Mustang fans want and why.

 

[9secondko]

I can agree with the things you were saying in the beginning of the post. The S550 is pretty SUV-ish. It's almost 4,000 lbs (some versions are over 4,000 lbs). It has a high center of gravity. When I sit in my GR86 my eyes are below the door mirrors on the S550, and I'm 6'4".

I think the Mustang II was a tremendous success. It sold huge numbers. I agree that it was anemic. However, it was an actual sporty car with good suspension in it. The 1974 Mustang weighed about 2700 lbs. Actually less than my GR86! Now that's a SPORTY car.

I'm still holding out hope that the weight and size will come down a little (improved performance), but you are essentially right. IMO it's a fun conversation to have, and I hope that Ford pays some attention to what current Mustang fans want and why.

I am not advocating for a heavy Mustang. Quite the opposite actually. the Mustang 2 era had the right idea of cutting weight, but not with the suspension (outside of the front) and not with the miserable engine lineup - and certainly not with the looks.

The Mustang concept is a small 2+2, long hood, short deck, big power, small car. Continuing that overall theme with ICE, hyrid, or EV is the way to go. Get the. platform light and you can add. the AWD goodies to the monster powered cars, knowing that you will WIN.

Fully agreed with the last statement.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

I think in my case, the only nice surprises left would be purely aesthetic or technological. Stuff like optional "iced" taillights, polished carbon fiber interior trim, or digital rear-view/360-degree cameras. Small consolations to mend the sting of "No AWD/Hybrid for S650 Period STOP BEGGING FOR IT BOOSTRABBITGT".

 

[Hack]

I am not advocating for a heavy Mustang. Quite the opposite actually. the Mustang 2 era had the right idea of cutting weight, but not with the suspension (outside of the front) and not with the miserable engine lineup - and certainly not with the looks.

The Mustang concept is a small 2+2, long hood, short deck, big power, small car. Continuing that overall theme with ICE, hyrid, or EV is the way to go. Get the. platform light and you can add. the AWD goodies to the monster powered cars, knowing that you will WIN.

Fully agreed with the last statement.

You didn't mention inexpensive. Prices have increased recently, but it also used to be a fairly inexpensive vehicle.

It's tough to keep a car light if you try to add a bunch of content to it. If you could add hybrid and AWD without adding a bunch of weight (and cost), I personally still would not want it, but I would be somewhat ambivalent.

But since obviously you are going to have a more expensive and heavier car with all this extra gear, I'm strongly opposed to it to the point where I'm pretty sure I'm no longer a Mustang buyer if that stuff gets added.

 

[9secondko]

You didn't mention inexpensive. Prices have increased recently, but it also used to be a fairly inexpensive vehicle.

It's tough to keep a car light if you try to add a bunch of content to it. If you could add hybrid and AWD without adding a bunch of weight (and cost), I personally still would not want it, but I would be somewhat ambivalent.

But since obviously you are going to have a more expensive and heavier car with all this extra gear, I'm strongly opposed to it to the point where I'm pretty sure I'm no longer a Mustang buyer if that stuff gets added.

Ford has already saved big money by sticking with the s550 platform and just updating it. They can pass some of that down the line.

if you forgo AWD, by the time the Mustang goes EV, you lose to everyone else. No thanks to that.

the mustang can’t sit still while everyone else improves. Not a recipe for success.

 

[thePill]

Yeah, I'd be surprised if they've cancelled it completely. If they have, S650 will have a very limited life outside the US.

So the question is, what changes occurred on the S550 platform that justified the new platform designation of “S650”.

When thePill was little, he heard that THE primary reason the S550 would require a new Chassis code name was specifically due to adoption of Hybrid technology. Another rumor and the rumor thePill loves most is, the S650 would host a scalable wheelbase, much like GM’s Alpha platform initially did.

A third option would just be the lightweight materials that were removed for the S550 in order to meet the target MSRP.

IF this is true, thePill expects the S650 to be a very, very short model run just to buy them time for Generation 8.


thePill believes that the S550/S650 program was devised in 2013 together because many inside Ford wanted to literally revive the 1966-1970 Mustang styling and go full EV.

That decision is what doomed any CD6 platform Mustang AND, shortened the S650 lifespan from 5-7 years to just 2 or 3. Once it was obvious the S550 couldn’t survive 10 years, it occurred to Ford that the S650 couldn’t last 5+ either… and plans had to change.


IF we don’t see a Hybrid Mustang, thePill fully expects a shortened wheelbase for the GT350 and GT500’s IF they even make a 500 this time. Times are changing quick and Ford did a fairly decent job of evolving to meet demand.

Hosting AWD on ICE technology while still offering a Hybrid option is a very messy product line TT…

So if there’s no AWD and no Hybrid what can Ford do with a new platform to drum up interest?

A true 2-seater Mustang on a shortened 105” wheelbase and lots of ICE power…

 

[thePill]

We don’t want Hybridization… either stay Gas or go EV, Hybrid technology is cumbersome, clunky and only a realistic option for the 2.3L. The 5.0 takes up too much space to really consider Hybrid technology.

Same goes for AWD. A V8 S550 can technically do it BUT, what does the base model cars need to suffer in order for some customers to tick that box? How many sales are we really talking about at current sales levels? 10,000 cars a year?

This is a swan song for ICE in general and Ford will likely lay it on pretty thick with the enthusiast because that’s pretty much the only people buying them.

If there is NO AWD and NO Hybrid, what can Ford do? Move the segment UP market to compete with GT3 type vehicles or, move DOWN and continue to adopt basic bottom parts-bin technology.

…Ford has already announced their intentions…

 

[Hack]

Ford has already saved big money by sticking with the s550 platform and just updating it. They can pass some of that down the line.

if you forgo AWD, by the time the Mustang goes EV, you lose to everyone else. No thanks to that.

the mustang can’t sit still while everyone else improves. Not a recipe for success.

You are talking more about development costs than production costs. They can't add a bunch of components to every car without raising the price. The platform tooling is a one-time cost. I doubt it matters much in the cost of each car. Probably Ford didn't spend the money on the platform because sales volumes don't justify sinking much development money into the car.

AWD is not an improvement for driving enjoyment. Cars are less fun to drive when they do too much for you. If you are professionally racing your car and you need AWD, you can get a BMW. They offer a few different models. Or you can get a WRX or Golf R. There are a few options out there. I want to enjoy the car and that doesn't mean magazine racing. I want it to be fun to drive.

It's easy for EV to be AWD. They just add more motors near the wheels they want to power. And when Mustang jumps off that cliff I'm sure it will employ whatever best practices are available at that time. I don't think what Ford does with the ICE Mustang will have any bearing on the EV version.

 

[designatedrhythm]

If there is nothing but a face lift refresh, count me underwhelmed and probably not foing to get one. The hybrid or ev was exciting for me because I commute a lot, so gas mileage is important. Ive already had an Ecoboost, so I'm really looking for the GT.

I hope there are some surprises left for us.

 

[Twin Turbo]

BMW's forthcoming M5 will be a hybrid V8...........I still think it'd be cool to see this as an option for S650

https://www.motor1.com/news/608448/...MYFvpdxG7pOWJQHziKDIChi85o-7al_DzcfPfYAtqOnhY

 

[9secondko]

Ford has already saved big money by sticking with the s550 platform and just updating it. They can pass some of that down the line.

You are talking more about development costs than production costs. They can't add a bunch of components to every car without raising the price. The platform tooling is a one-time cost. I doubt it matters much in the cost of each car. Probably Ford didn't spend the money on the platform because sales volumes don't justify sinking much development money into the car.

AWD is not an improvement for driving enjoyment. Cars are less fun to drive when they do too much for you. If you are professionally racing your car and you need AWD, you can get a BMW. They offer a few different models. Or you can get a WRX or Golf R. There are a few options out there. I want to enjoy the car and that doesn't mean magazine racing. I want it to be fun to drive.

It's easy for EV to be AWD. They just add more motors near the wheels they want to power. And when Mustang jumps off that cliff I'm sure it will employ whatever best practices are available at that time. I don't think what Ford does with the ICE Mustang will have any bearing on the EV version.

Money is money. Amortization is s great thing. Ford is saving plenty of money on the platform - as they did with s550 itself.

the price will go up some, but it’s doing that anyway in all vehicles.

competition is getting better. The Mustang must do so as well.

in an industry increasingly eschewing cars like the Mustang, Ford can’t afford to let it sit in the past. It needs to be better in order to succeed moving forward.

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