With the s650 GT being an AWD hybrid v8 - would it still be considered a muscle car?

[Bikeman315]

Where was it confirmed that a S650 Mustang will be AWD or 4 doors or hybrid....or EV? Did I miss an announcement?

Nope, you didn't miss a thing. OP was just speculating.

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[IronG]

Ok I guess the title should have had "If" instead of "being". Moving on then.

 

[Stonehauler]

To answer the question of the OP...YES, it would still be a muscle car. A MODERN muscle car.

Muscle cars have historically been about straight line performance. Big engine up front, RWD to put the power to the ground.

In the modern car era, power and torque have gotten to the point where they are outstripping the ability of modern tires to be able to put that power efficiently to the ground, or at least, not without putting huge tires in the back.

We need to realize that making 11sies (to quote Richard Hammond) is a sign of wasted power. Those burn marks on the pavement, the smoke, and the noise that was made represent energy that was produced by the engine, but did not get translated into acceleration.

I would much rather get faster acceleration than have to go out and buy new tires because I smoked mine too often.

Ways to get better acceleration...more low end torque (electric motor have GOBS of torque down low), and AWD which increases the size of the patch of tire touching the ground and is used to accelerate the vehicle. This in turn allows us to use smaller rear tires, meaning less weight, which translates into even better acceleration. YES, AWD adds a bit of weight, but the performance improvements more than compensates for it...IF they build it right. That's the key. Ford likes to cheap out on things, which has translates to lesser performance.

 

[Hack]

Or does this start to get into sports car territory?

To me with AWD it's more muscle car - faster in a straight line, heavier, higher CoG, not as sporty.

 

[Hack]

Ways to get better acceleration...more low end torque (electric motor have GOBS of torque down low), and AWD which increases the size of the patch of tire touching the ground and is used to accelerate the vehicle. This in turn allows us to use smaller rear tires, meaning less weight, which translates into even better acceleration. YES, AWD adds a bit of weight, but the performance improvements more than compensates for it...IF they build it right. That's the key. Ford likes to cheap out on things, which has translates to lesser performance.

More low end torque usually for a gas engine they just use gearing to do that. That's part of why I have a 2017, because the gearing is better for street acceleration compared to the newer manual transmission cars.

Electric motors do accelerate more quickly, but it's not due to how much low end torque they have, it's because they can react very quickly to loss of traction and adjust for how much traction is available. Gas engines take a lot longer to adjust power output.

The bad thing about AWD in a front engine vehicle is the components for driving the front wheels occupy the same space as the engine. This means you have to raise up the engine higher to fit the AWD parts. So not only do you have the extra weight, you also have a massive weight (engine) higher up in the car. For a mid or rear engine vehicle it's less of an issue, because the engine isn't in the way of the front AWD components.

 

[ramirj2]

You DO WANT AWD you just haven't had a car with proper AWD. Look at the BMW G80 M3... The xdrive M3 combines both, AWD AND RWD. One can easily switch between them by pushing a single button. Yes, the entire system is slightly heavier ~50kg but we're talking about an already heavy cars so probably no one would notice the difference.

The question is can FORD build such a system or not… I have my doubts…

Exactly - I can't punch my car anymore on anything non prepped because of it's layout, power and converter.
I'm currently looking for a Rear/ Mid engine layout or an AWD to run on 1/2 mile and roll race events and leave my S550 for drag racing only.
The G80 M3 is my first choice because it is RWD and switch to AWD just as needed. You can even switch it to RWD only mode. The issue is I'm on a waiting list for an allocation since July 21' .

 

[Stonehauler]

Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing or CT5-V Blackwing?

 

[Johnnybee]

I see the problem as trying to apply a nearly 60 year old name tag to a modern vehicle. The original was light, inexpensive and fun. I would even suggest that the ‘71-‘73 had moved away from being a real pony car, with a curb weight a half ton more than the original. It returned with the Fox body once a V8 was available, and 800 pounds lighter than a ‘73. But as content and safety requirements increase, so too does weight, with my convertible EB now weighing nearly as much as my ‘91 caprice Classic did.

 

[Shelbeast]

Ford Authority: No AWD on the S650.

 

[ramirj2]

As of now this S650 seems to be more like an S550 - 2.0 (refresh) . I hope that's not the case...

 

[Rothgray]

The 2022 BMW M4 can come in AWD, and it is still referred to as a German Muscle / Pony car. It's the same configuration as a Mustang.

 

[Bikeman315]

The 2022 BMW M4 can come in AWD, and it is still referred to as a German Muscle / Pony car. It's the same configuration as a Mustang.

If this is the case any 2 door rear wheel drive coupe is a "pony" car. Fortunately that is not the case. "Any" car is only applicable to original 1960's two door coupes with long hoods and short tails. The Mustang, of course, invented the term although it was not actually the first pony car. That would have been the Plymouth Barracuda. Then we got the Camaro, Challenger, Cougar, & Firebird. Now many of these were also considered "muscle" cars even thought that term originally was used for larger cars like the Fairlane, Chevelle, GTO, 442, etc..

 

[Rothgray]

If this is the case any 2 door rear wheel drive coupe is a "pony" car. Fortunately that is not the case. "Any" car is only applicable to original 1960's two door coupes with long hoods and short tails. The Mustang, of course, invented the term although it was not actually the first pony car. That would have been the Plymouth Barracuda. Then we got the Camaro, Challenger, Cougar, & Firebird. Now many of these were also considered "muscle" cars even thought that term originally was used for larger cars like the Fairlane, Chevelle, GTO, 442, etc..

It's the same configuration as a Mustang, not just being a 2 door coupe, but being a 2 door coupe., with a long hood, short tail, 2+2 configuration.

 

[Bikeman315]

It's the same configuration as a Mustang, not just being a 2 door coupe, but being a 2 door coupe., with a long hood, short tail, 2+2 configuration.

Still not a pony car. Never has been, never will be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_car

 

[Rothgray]

Still not a pony car. Never has been, never will be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_car

Automotive journalists still quote it as one. They are more qualified at this than you, so we will go with that.

But you are right, they should probably just stick to calling it a sports coupe or German muscle car since it basically out performs all of the Pony cars at just about every performance category, no sense in lumping it in with them.

Same with the Mercedes AMG C63S and Audi RS5.

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