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Mach VII

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Nuclear has a big issue beyond the environmental and safety concerns, it is glaringly obvious via the war in Ukraine - generation plants being highjacked and used as a shield or even worse, a weapon. I do have a question for proponents - Are you willing to have one built within 25 miles of your home?

S650 Mustang Report: All Electric EV Mustang Generation Comes in 2028 tempImageNAd9Tm


What we do for energy and it is sized to (eventually) include charging an automobile. Couldn't justify adding batteries right away as still too expensive though ROI is estimated at 10 years. Same issues we discuss about battery tech in cars translates to my concerns about investing for my home... but the time when that becomes viable will come sooner rather than later IMO.

Back on topic, My guess is that 7G Mustang has 8 year cycle, first 4 with 'carryover' engines and second 4 going hybrid and adding a modified version that is pure electric like they did with Lightning.
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shogun32

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Are you will to have one built within 25 miles of your home?
absolutely. Liquid-Salt or Thorium, I'll take two. The Thorium comes from coal (and other stuff). You get wAY WAY more energy out of it than burning the actual coal. You use the nuc to power the grid and ALSO the coal-to-liquids conversion process (eg. ww2-era synthfuel, and modern Porsche effort) from coal - coal we have in so much obscene abundance it'll run the planet for a thousand years.

You can NOT make nuclear weapons out of it. It is easy to reprocess and BURN the waste product in the very same reactor. And you don't need a functioning grid or infinite water supply to keep the thing from going critical even after so-called shutdown.

As I sit I have a really old reactor at Lake Anna 20 miles away threatening all life within 200+ miles.

We have safe nuclear. We REFUSE to deploy it. Because we want our nuclear weapon stockpile, I guess. The Chicoms have an actual brain and are working on deploying Thorium.

What I don't understand is why the Oil Kingdoms haven't used their wealth to go Thorium reactor, ditto Africa and South America. It's downright cheap and has negligible environment risk. And neither the US Goons or Ruskies need to get all worried about nuclear proliferation. This whole Iranian stalemate is just stupid. Build them half a dozen Thorium or Salt reactors and they'll be set for 100 years. And we can put paid to the whole pretense of civilian power when what they really want to do is get nuclear weapons.
 
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Skye

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https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/26/for...-by-as-much-as-8475-due-to-battery-costs.html

Not incredibly surprised. Ford previously increased pricing on the Lightning by about the same.

As a consumer, at what point will demand begin leveling off?

As a business, how will any increases affect vehicle design, rollout and product lines?

As a government, will officials increase incentives to maintain their environmental objectives?
 
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JWS

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Nuclear has a big issue beyond the environmental and safety concerns, it is glaringly obvious via the war in Ukraine - generation plants being highjacked and used as a shield or even worse, a weapon. I do have a question for proponents - Are you willing to have one built within 25 miles of your home?

tempImageNAd9Tm.jpg


What we do for energy and it is sized to (eventually) include charging an automobile. Couldn't justify adding batteries right away as still too expensive though ROI is estimated at 10 years. Same issues we discuss about battery tech in cars translates to my concerns about investing for my home... but the time when that becomes viable will come sooner rather than later IMO.

Back on topic, My guess is that 7G Mustang has 8 year cycle, first 4 with 'carryover' engines and second 4 going hybrid and adding a modified version that is pure electric like they did with Lightning.
It's not about Return On Investment. It's about having Power for your Home and Being able to Transport yourself when the Power goes Out. Having been through a few Hurricanes and Lightning Power Outages, I'd spend the money, if I had it!
 


llinthicum1

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But a $7500 EV tax credit is one hell of an incentive to change.
Right now, the Mustang Mach-E is the only Mustang eligible for a the $7500 EV tax credit. 2028 will be too late for the S650 to get it.
Read the fine print on the tax credits. There's a lot of things that have to be met (like battery materials, where batteries are manufactured, where the vehicle is produced, etc.) to qualify for the credit. Also, the tax credit cannot exceed your tax liability. Let's say the vehicle meets all of the criteria and is eligible for $7,500 tax credit. If your tax liability is say $2,500, then you only get $2,500. That's assuming you can afford a $66,000 vehicle in the first place.
 

shogun32

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The Commie-fornication is already walking it back. Economics is a bitch that will not be ignored.

The California Air Resources Board (CARB) just voted on an ICE sales ban – set to take effect in 2035 – and passed that particular measure, a move that Ford has publicly endorsed. However, this rule is really just a partial zero emissions vehicle (PZEV) mandate, technically – not a total ICE vehicle ban. Officially known as the Advanced Clean Cars II rule, this new ruling aims to achieve 100 percent zero emission vehicle (ZEV) sales by 2035, but apparently allows for Ford plug-in hybrids – along with those from other manufacturers – to still be sold, regardless.
In a couple more years they'll say "as long as your car has a Lithium battery in it, not that ewww Lead-Acid one, you can buy a non-EV ICE." Cue run on Lithium heavy-duty cranking startup batteries. :)

First rule to remember about politicians - they are the dumbest, most ignorant people on the planet.

And now we have 7% price increases on the MY23 Mach-E. Wait, you mean there's inflation going on? Cause nothing says let's save the planet like making your product unobtanium for the masses. $50,000+ for a mid-size CUV?
 
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9secondko

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I suspect the psychotic price increases coupled with less features due to chip shortages is alreadyhavingsomeimpact. But some people who NEED vehicle have cut their losses. Those who can wait for a buyers market will.

right now is a terrible time to buy a vehicle
 

Hack

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Honestly, most people will buy EVs, just like they buy ICEs.

EVs will come. The government is forcing it on us. Washington State by 2030, California by 2035, all new vehicles will be EVs.

Let's hope that Ford and Chevrolet will follow Dodge's lead and make at least one fun to drive car.
I agree. If there are no other new car options, a lot of people will buy EVs.


But we are not "most people". I've done engine swaps, rebuilt engines and transmissions, converted a carbureted car to EFI (without a kit), and done a lot of more minor things as well. Personally I would be willing to do a lot of work to keep an ICE going if necessary. I wouldn't rule out driving the same car for the next 20 years or more.

I was driving an 80s Fox Mustang as my year round car in 2010 when I decided I liked the Coyote and wanted a newer Mustang.


IF a solution is found, Nuclear is still the way to go for mass grid applications (fusion and fission).

For vehicles, EVs still win on the simplicity and maintenance fronts and current battery limitations will be a thing of the past when solid state batteries come to market (2026 timeframe). So even if hydrogen generation and storage can be solved, it’s still going to be a niche product. ICE performance vehicles could live on with hydrogen but it will NOT be the replacement fuel of the future.
I disagree that EVs win on maintenance. Which exact EV are you talking about that will win on maintenance? And over what period of time? Or are you thinking you will just be buying new with very low trade-in value every time the batteries wear out? How often are EV electrical motors going to wear out? I don't think we really know the answers.

My guess is that EVs will be built as cheaply as possible so the manufacturer can make the most money possible.

So they will set up the failure rate to be whatever their customer base will accept. Just like current cars.

I don't think you can count on EVs to be better than ICE powered cars. You are giving car companies too much credit.

The more I think about it, the more a properly engineered hybrid makes sense.

not only does it keep the American V8 “soul” and character, but ithas Potential to extend range by a lot.

let’s say the electric motors do most of the work and the much smaller v8 is there primarily syncing with those motors to not only add a bit of power to the equation (heck, even if they didn’t and only existed to feed the electric motors), but true exhaust note as well as —— provide current to recharging batteries. In a multi battery setup, one battery can be active while the others charge.

it would be the best of all worlds.

and it wouldcertainly ensure the mustang thrives as a bit of a rebel as has been its core since inception.

dodge going the full Tesla route + vacuum cleaner synced to the “throttle” input flies in the face of what has sold their muscle cars for so long.

enter the Mustang, looking like no other mustang before, faster than any mustang before, handling better than any mustang before, getting better range/mpg than ever, sounding like every hot v8 mustang that came before, and reminding a stale and increasingly gimmicky segment what it is to be an American muscle car on the world stage.

I may be crazy, but I think people would buy that up. I know I would - and be proud of it.
Hybrid is definitely better than EV right now. ICE is better yet. Hybrid would be heavier and more expensive than what we have now. It's hard work to get the weight out of a car, but it really improves the driving experience.

Anyway, I personally would not be interested in buying a hybrid. I think it would be more fun to buy a power adder for my current GT. Or maybe some track days and consumables.
 

zackmd1

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I disagree that EVs win on maintenance. Which exact EV are you talking about that will win on maintenance? And over what period of time? Or are you thinking you will just be buying new with very low trade-in value every time the batteries wear out? How often are EV electrical motors going to wear out? I don't think we really know the answers.

My guess is that EVs will be built as cheaply as possible so the manufacturer can make the most money possible.

So they will set up the failure rate to be whatever their customer base will accept. Just like current cars.

I don't think you can count on EVs to be better than ICE powered cars. You are giving car companies too much credit.
I think we have been through this exact conversation before…. EV motors are simple in design. More or less two bearings and a copper coil with magnets surrounding it. No oil requirements, no tight tolerance wet bearings, no piston rings wearing the cylinder walls, etc….. The Tesla model 3’s drivetrain was tested to 1M miles and was still going strong.

On the battery front, the Model 3’s MIC battery was tested to 500k miles and still had over 80% capacity remaining. The LFP packs in the base models are actually more durable than the MIC packs meaning they will last longer. The new 4680 cells are good to a theoretical 2M miles with 80% capacity remaining.

Bottom line, an EV is absolutely going to outlast an ICE vehicle and will cost FAR less to maintain over that lifecycle. This is all readily available information and test data. So yes I can safely say an EV will beat an ICE vehicle on the maintenance front….

People here seem to have the misconception that there is a choice going forward between an ICE muscle car and an EV muscle car… The reality is that it’s a choice between an EV muscle car (new charger concept) or the Mach E… Which would you rather have? An SUV claiming to be a Mustang or a 2 door coupe that actually looks the part and has the performance to back it up? People need to start facing the reality that ICE is done after the current decade and that no amount of kicking and screaming is going to change that. The only thing you are going to succeed in doing is killing the 2 door coupe muscle car and paving the way for sedans and SUVs to carry the name….
 

Hack

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I think we have been through this exact conversation before…. EV motors are simple in design. More or less two bearings and a copper coil with magnets surrounding it. No oil requirements, no tight tolerance wet bearings, no piston rings wearing the cylinder walls, etc….. The Tesla model 3’s drivetrain was tested to 1M miles and was still going strong.

On the battery front, the Model 3’s MIC battery was tested to 500k miles and still had over 80% capacity remaining. The LFP packs in the base models are actually more durable than the MIC packs meaning they will last longer. The new 4680 cells are good to a theoretical 2M miles with 80% capacity remaining.

Bottom line, an EV is absolutely going to outlast an ICE vehicle and will cost FAR less to maintain over that lifecycle. This is all readily available information and test data. So yes I can safely say an EV will beat an ICE vehicle on the maintenance front….

People here seem to have the misconception that there is a choice going forward between an ICE muscle car and an EV muscle car… The reality is that it’s a choice between an EV muscle car (new charger concept) or the Mach E… Which would you rather have? An SUV claiming to be a Mustang or a 2 door coupe that actually looks the part and has the performance to back it up? People need to start facing the reality that ICE is done after the current decade and that no amount of kicking and screaming is going to change that. The only thing you are going to succeed in doing is killing the 2 door coupe muscle car and paving the way for sedans and SUVs to carry the name….
Talk to me about the Bolt EV. Talk to me about the recalled Mach Es.

Just because one specific (and expensive) EV works well, doesn't mean all future EVs will work well. I know I have read an article this year where an EV's batteries were projected to just barely be above the warranty recall numbers at 100,000 miles. So I trust the Car and Driver reviewer more than you.

Remember the other choice going forward is never, ever buying another new car. This is the less expensive and more fun choice in my opinion.
 

zackmd1

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Talk to me about the Bolt EV. Talk to me about the recalled Mach Es.

Just because one specific (and expensive) EV works well, doesn't mean all future EVs will work well. I know I have read an article this year where an EV's batteries were projected to just barely be above the warranty recall numbers at 100,000 miles. So I trust the Car and Driver reviewer more than you.

Remember the other choice going forward is never, ever buying another new car. This is the less expensive and more fun choice in my opinion.
Yea just like all of the ICE vehicles that have never had any recalls… You are still dealing with a mass produced product, you are going to have manufacturing defects that will lead to recalls. No way around that.

Feel free to never buy a new car again, the rest of the world is going to move forward without you…
 

BoostRabbitGT

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Maybe it's just me, but I'd be absolutely ecstatic if (when?) they release a hybrid V8 Mustang with at-minimum current-model EcoBoost fuel economy.

Going back to the EV Mustang that isn't the Mach-E, if they can make an exhaust sound that isn't a vacuum cleaner or Forza Horizon 4 levels of sound design trashfire, I think I might look more forward to that.

Never mind, just please give me something that runs on good ol' fashioned reliability that isn't limited to "just a boring sounding I-4". (Are there exciting sounding I-4s?)
 

llinthicum1

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So, if an EV Mustang coupe/convertible happens in 2028 (as 2029 model), what happens to the Mach-e? Does it become an EV Explorer? EV Escape? EV Edge? Or does it continue as the Mache-e?

Assuming by 2028, the Mach-e and Mustang coupe will use the same platform, the Mustang coupe will have to be a design that will differentiate it from the Mach-e in more ways than just having 2 doors. The Mach-e is a crossover where the Mustang is a sports coupe (dare I say muscle car in the same mode as the Charger Daytona SRT EV?). At least, the interior of the Mustang coupe could be different. Have a better instrumentation cluster and info screen integrated into the dash. And have more buttons instead of everything being touch screen. Compared to the floating tablet in the Mach-e that looks too much like a Tesla.

Or Ford could take the S650 platform and design and add battery pack. But skeptical if that is even feasible.
 

shogun32

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(Are there exciting sounding I-4s?)
not in a car. even the AMG A45 sounds like pants.

Now put a microphone next to a Yamaha cross-plane R1 doing 12,000+ RPM and I'll open my eyes. The Duc and Aprilia V4s at 1.5L or so capacity might be delicious. But nothing at this pathetic 6500 RPM.

A 200HP small-caliber front-drive manual trans ICE that can be used intermittently with rear electric drive and 12-20KW battery would be my kind of hybrid. Plus it would nicely balance out the weight of the car to 50/50 and have infinite range since fill-ups are still a 2 minute affair.

I mean I'd prefer the ICE drive the real wheels but short of Porsche and C8 nobody is doing that and it would be cost prohibitive. Front-wheel ICE is the most popular config and for good reason and they've got most of warts figured out these days. Front-drive ICE also means no trans tunnel and lots of room to do a sorta-skateboard pack in the back-half of the car.
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