Official! All-New 2024 Mustang S650 Dark Horse Delivers 500 HP, GT 486 HP, EcoBoost 315 HP

[OppoLock]

yeah… you missed quite a bit in the process. But that’s ok. Carry on.
Also we aren’t discussing the detuned 2022 power figures. That’s an artificial increase.

Except it’s not an artificial decrease. They did it to meet more stringent emissions targets, which makes it even better to see that they improved the efficiency of their motors to make what improvements ARE here under the same stringent requirements

100hp/L in a 5L V8 is pretty dang good all things said

coming back to the Z06 argument, it wasn’t just the price tag, it’s the fact that it’s a very low volume model

the more of these they project to sell, the more their average fleet emissions and fuel consumption will be affected so it’s great that they’re still committing to the enthusiasts on a relatively economic scale

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[Trap]

And this is something that most bench racers, including myself, often forget or ignore. It’s the same principle IMO that applies to a lot of non-track PP and HP owners. Sure, you got the capability but if you don’t track your car where you really gonna use it and are you personally good enough to use it anyway? But hey, if it gives you something fun to talk about and you can add it to your profile sig then it’s all worth it, right?

Very well said the percentage of people on this forum that could even drive a DH to its full potential would be pretty close to zero. we sometimes get so wrapped up in performance of the vehicle, yet most myself included cannot even use all that it has to offer. 500 hp is lots for the street or the track. I don't think I would notice the difference between 500-520, doubt it would make me much quicker on the track.

 

[zstanny]

Don’t forget it’s not just the ability to tune, but the sync 4 system. Ford gets a data upload at night after you cut your cats and tuned it. You try to start the car next morning, you’re locked out. This is speculation and would require legislation but I wouldn’t put it past certain states well before others.
[/QUOTE]

I don't buy the "un tuneable" argument at all.

The gen 4 computer for the F150 is already cracked.
Will we see 7 second S650s?? Not right away.
But tuning is not gonna be a problem.

 

[f00man]

“Some people don’t like to hear this”

No, it’s just eye roll inducing lol. Like when someone brings up a used car in a conversation about new cars for X dollars

Anyone here that can afford DH prices will no doubt be able to buy a Mach 1

But guess what, not everyone wants a Mach 1

I get it. And anyone that can afford a DH, can afford a Mach 1 and a GT350/R. I came close to getting a GT350, but the M1 HP was more a complete car for me, just as the DH will be for others.

 

[Zelek]

I understand you love your car but your comparisons are silly. Comparing any tuned car to a stock one is pointless. A tuned GT350 will still blow your doors off. Also, let's be real, if given a choice most of us on here would take a GT350 long before a Mach 1.

Now as far as the DH, you're speculating. Your M1 is not superior to a car that doesn't exist yet, period. Will your tuned M1 be faster? Maybe, maybe not. Will a tune be made available for the DH that will blow your M1 out of the water? Maybe, we just don't know yet.

Your M1 is an awesome car but there will always be something better, there always is. Will it be the DH, most likely. Will it be a new BOSS, a new GT350 or a GT500, definitely. But enjoy your car today as we do not know what tomorrow will bring.

Until the Voodoo fails, have fun with that one.

 

[Zelek]

Stop reaching. The car isn't even out yet and you're using tuning as an argument? lol. By this time next year the DH will be cracking 10s in the 1/4 running NA

Why are you drag racing a car with coolers meant for road coursing? You people are silly. Same goes for people who drag race a Mach 1. There's a GT for a reason.

 

[because_murica]

We already know that Whipple has a supercharger in the works and I'm positive others have been given Fords blessing. If anything there will be an exodus of unreliable tuners

 

[Zelek]

Of course the car your presently own would be superior to its future iteration. Of course it would.....

So far Ford has only given Whipple any sort of permission as far as tuning goes and we all know Whipple's tunes are heavily conservative in comparison with an aftermarket tuner. How is a locked down ECU superior?

 

[Dragster]

yeah… you missed quite a bit in the process. But that’s ok. Carry on.
Also we aren’t discussing the detuned 2022 power figures. That’s an artificial increase.

So please enlighten me, then. What exactly am I missing?

You brought up that the S650 isn't really all new, and I agreed with you...
You brought up the 03 Cobra and I pointed out that it took 4 years AFTER a redesign to come out, so Ford may very well have something up their sleeves...
You brought up "that we wouldn't think the power figures would be less," and I pointed out that you're simply factually incorrect here as the models got power increases...
You brought up that the GT has "6 more horsepower," which again, is factually incorrect regardless of whether we're talking about the 450 or 460 hp Coyote cars...

I get that you're disappointed that Ford didn't pull a 2011 and stuff a new engine in the car with a 100 hp increase. I get that you think they could've done more and done better, but there's still time for that. We've seen the GT and the Dark Horse, which for all intents and purposes is a Mach 1 replacement, and both received power bumps. Sure, they weren't huge power bumps, but that's simply not a realistic expectation every time a car is redesigned--especially in the face of legislation and a political climate that is dead set on putting the internal combustion engine out to pasture. When the C8 debuted, the car gained 35 hp over the C7. The S650 GT gained 30 over the previous year.

 

[because_murica]

So far Ford has only given Whipple any sort of permission as far as tuning goes and we all know Whipple's tunes are heavily conservative in comparison with an aftermarket tuner. How is a locked down ECU superior?

As someone pointed out earlier, the F150's ECU has already been unlocked. As S650 will run on the same/similar Ford Connected Vehicle Architecture, it will not be very long before S650's ECU is unlocked as well.

With that said, I'm willing to bet the reputable shops such as LMR, Lethal, Steeda and PBD will have avenues to grant them access to tuning before the unlock. Shelby, Roush, Saleen, and RTR (while certainly more significant shops than the aforementioned) already have S650 dev cars in the works.

 

[OppoLock]

So please enlighten me, then. What exactly am I missing?

You brought up that the S650 isn't really all new, and I agreed with you...
You brought up the 03 Cobra and I pointed out that it took 4 years AFTER a redesign to come out, so Ford may very well have something up their sleeves...
You brought up "that we wouldn't think the power figures would be less," and I pointed out that you're simply factually incorrect here as the models got power increases...
You brought up that the GT has "6 more horsepower," which again, is factually incorrect regardless of whether we're talking about the 450 or 460 hp Coyote cars...

I get that you're disappointed that Ford didn't pull a 2011 and stuff a new engine in the car with a 100 hp increase. I get that you think they could've done more and done better, but there's still time for that. We've seen the GT and the Dark Horse, which for all intents and purposes is a Mach 1 replacement, and both received power bumps. Sure, they weren't huge power bumps, but that's simply not a realistic expectation every time a car is redesigned--especially in the face of legislation and a political climate that is dead set on putting the internal combustion engine out to pasture. When the C8 debuted, the car gained 35 hp over the C7. The S650 GT gained 30 over the previous year.

Well said

 

[Bikeman315]

99% of posters couldn't drive a Civic to it's full capability. Self included.

 

[bnightstar]

I doubt it. Then he would have to come on here and admit what a fool he made of himself. Just like those who crapped on the Mach 1 early on. And not let's forget those who thought the Bullitt was nothing more than a green GT.

Is it anyting more than a green GT PP2 though ?

 

[Bikeman315]

Is it anyting more than a green GT PP2 though ?

Yes, it is. But only if you are a fan of the movie and/or Steve McQueen aka "The Man". That said I remember someone on here buying one who didn't know about the movie and just loved the color.

 

[Schwerin]

The way I see it, it's a trade off. The gt350 and 350r were amazing drivers cars. But from what I've read, the voodoo isn't exactly the poster child for reliability. Even stock, they were popping off left and right.

One of the worst things a drivers car can be is unreliable. Makes it hard to enjoy the experience if you're constantly worried about your engine grinding itself into the ground.

The dark horse is a less... spectacular car for sure. It doesn't have the drama that the gt350 does. But the familiarity of the rock solid 5.0 would have its own sort of appeal I'd imagine. You would never be worried about how the engine handled abuse. So you could enjoy doing things like track days more.

Not to mention with some stronger components from the gt500, I could imagine the dark horse being a tuners paradise. The ones that can crack the ECU at least. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw DH's throwing down 800, 900, 1,000+ hp with forced induction and a few other mods.

The problem is that also none of that applies to the Mach1, which likely you will be able to get for cheaper than the DH.
Regarding what I've bolded we already have 2018+ GT's doing that on sealed engines. Only a small part of people will ever be actually tracking the car, even less be putting down more than the 18+ internals can already put down, and nearly anyone wanting 1000+ will be doing a full engine build anyway eventually. Most the tear downs I have seen on 18+ cars now is the OPG's still being the weak link. Unless Fords fixed that(after 30 damn years) the rest is pointless.

I'd have 100% much prefered every car got the same 500HP engine but Ford put a TON more work into handling, weight reduction and gearing for the DH making it a GT350R competitor without the Shelby name. Telling me that all GT's get 500HP and the DH gets better gearing, cooling and lost 200-250lbs would make me care a lot more about it then 14hp.

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