Rant after driving a M2 and M3

[Mustang1987]

Workers want money. Shareholders want money. Mining and refining companies want money. Everyone wants money. So it goes. As long as the velocity of money remains high you can get away with passing on costs. Of course you can't squeeze blood from a turnip, so if you run out of customers with money, profit margins get cut.

Exactly

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[roadpilot]

Through the first 6 months of this year, Mustang sales are up 7% over last year. For reference, the last time the Mustang was "all-new," it resulted in a 42% increase in sales year over year. That's simply not good for the S650, and I think the current price plays a significant role in that.

And I already explained, in great detail, why this has far more to do with things unrelated to the Mustang.

 

[Dragster]

And I already explained, in great detail, why this has far more to do with things unrelated to the Mustang.

And I agreed that there are other factors at play, but you absolutely can not discount the car itself and the price of said car. The Mustang sold more during the Great Recession than it did even with the small bump in sales due to the S650. The Mustang is on track to sell about 55,000 units this year--that's 11,000 behind the WORST year of the Great Recession. If it were all about the economy, that wouldn't be the case.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. You seem to think the recent price increases are justified, and I've shown you why I disagree. You can debate all you want, but the fact remains that real-world Mustang prices are increasing at a rate faster than the rest of the auto market, faster than inflation, and faster than many of its competitors. I don't think that's good for the brand, but only time will tell.

 

[robvas]

Don't forget about market trends. People aren't buying two door sports cars. If they were the Camaro and Challenger would still be coming off the assembly lines. Just aren't "cool" anymore. And young people are not into cars or driving like they were a long time ago, and they're too expensive for first time buyers.

People are buying SUV's and electrics. 600hp Model S or even the Performance versions of the Y/3 are pretty damn quick.

 

[roadpilot]

You can debate all you want, but the fact remains that real-world Mustang prices are increasing at a rate faster than the rest of the auto market, faster than inflation, and faster than many of its competitors.

So you've evaluated price increases over time for every other vehicle produced? How did you ever find the time. Care to share all that data and analysis with us? Can't wait to review it myself.

 

[Dragster]

So you've evaluated price increases over time for every other vehicle produced? How did you ever find the time. Care to share all that data and analysis with us? Can't wait to review it myself.

Good Lord, the data looks at the market as a whole. Don't be so pedantic. By the way, Google is your friend, use it.

Here's an AP article from this year stating that new car prices have increased more than 21% since the start of 2020. Inflation over that time period was 18%.

Mustang GT base MSRP has risen 26.7% over that time, so yes, the base price of a Mustang GT is outpacing the overall car market, inflation, and as I show in the edit, some of its competitors as well.

EDIT: While I'm at it, here are the price increases since 2020 for the Mustang, M2, and Corvette--two of the cars people on this forum have mentioned that they're cross shopping with:

M2 price increase 2020-2025: 10.3% (this includes destination charges)
Corvette price increase 2020-2024 (no 2025 prices announced yet): 16.6% (this also includes destination charge as Chevy automatically incorporates it into the MSRP
Mustang GT price increase 2020-2025: 26.7% (this does not include destination)

 

[robvas]

Look how expensive the other RWD sports cars are now

Nissan Z: 45-65k

Toyota Supra: 56-59k

BMW M2: 65k+

The lower trim levels of the Mustang still look like a bargain at $46k, especially when you consider you can get them for about $5k under that

and the thing is, the S550/S650 is a really good car. Sure you can nitpick about things here and there but they are miles ahead of the compromises you made with previous models.

 

[roadpilot]

Good Lord, the data looks at the market as a whole. Don't be so pedantic. By the way, Google is your friend, use it.

Here's an AP article from this year stating that new car prices have increased more than 21% since the start of 2020. Inflation over that time period was 18%.

Mustang GT base MSRP has risen 26.7% over that time, so yes, the base price of a Mustang GT is outpacing the overall car market, inflation, and as I show in the edit, some of its competitors as well.

EDIT: While I'm at it, here are the price increases since 2020 for the Mustang, M2, and Corvette--two of the cars people on this forum have mentioned that they're cross shopping with:

M2 price increase 2020-2025: 10.3% (this includes destination charges)
Corvette price increase 2020-2024 (no 2025 prices announced yet): 16.6% (this also includes destination charge as Chevy automatically incorporates it into the MSRP
Mustang GT price increase 2020-2025: 26.7% (this does not include destination)

So your answer is 'No', you simply assumed.

Thanks for clarifying.

And, yes, the Lord is good. Great, actually.

 

[dusman59]

Comparing the Mustang price increase from 2020 to 2025 tells me the early years in that time period Ford sold them too cheap. Numbers seem alittle skewed.

 

[Dragster]

So your answer is 'No', you simply assumed.

Thanks for clarifying.

And, yes, the Lord is good. Great, actually.

No, I didn't assume--I used market data that you're obviously too dense to understand. Market data looks at all the new cars in the market, which is exactly what you asked about. I really can't make it any simpler for you. I've provided you with proof that the Mustang is rising in price greater than inflation, the overall new car market, and some of its competition. You can deny it all you want, but you're faced with facts and trying to deflect. You've done nothing to back up your viewpoint, and that's because the data is in my favor. Some of the members on here are incapable of looking at things critically and get defensive any time soneone poses an opposing viewpoint. Good luck in life with that attitude. Have fun with your Mustang and enjoy all those Ford recalls. I'm no longer going to waste my time with you.

 

[roadpilot]

No, I didn't assume--I used market data that you're obviously too dense to understand. Market data looks at all the new cars in the market, which is exactly what you asked about. I really can't make it any simpler for you. I've provided you with proof that the Mustang is rising in price greater than inflation, the overall new car market, and some of its competition. You can deny it all you want, but you're faced with facts and trying to deflect. You've done nothing to back up your viewpoint, and that's because the data is in my favor. Some of the members on here are incapable of looking at things critically and get defensive any time soneone poses an opposing viewpoint. Good luck in life with that attitude. Have fun with your Mustang and enjoy all those Ford recalls. I'm no longer going to waste my time with you.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

So...about the M2 and M3...how about the non-performance 2- and 3-series and its contemporaries in the Audi A3/new A5 and Mercedes Benz CLA/C-Class?

If I had to go "basic" Euro sedan or liftback instead of a GT, what would you guys recommend?

 

[allenquanobi]

So...about the M2 and M3...how about the non-performance 2- and 3-series and its contemporaries in the Audi A3/new A5 and Mercedes Benz CLA/C-Class?

If I had to go "basic" Euro sedan or liftback instead of a GT, what would you guys recommend?

Don't really think you can go wrong with any of the Audi S cars or the BMW M cars. BMW has the manuals of course, but if you don't care about that then those cars are a blast to drive.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

Don't really think you can go wrong with any of the Audi S cars or the BMW M cars. BMW has the manuals of course, but if you don't care about that then those cars are a blast to drive.

The new 2025 A5 has my attention for sure. Just waiting for a configurator for it to come out.

 

[Radiant]

So...about the M2 and M3...how about the non-performance 2- and 3-series and its contemporaries in the Audi A3/new A5 and Mercedes Benz CLA/C-Class?

If I had to go "basic" Euro sedan or liftback instead of a GT, what would you guys recommend?

M240i, it's a driver-centric car that strikes a good balance between comfort and performance.

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