How long do you think the S650 will stay in production?

[Zig]

The hostorical precedent of the last 25 years or so is that Ford rotates their specialty performance packages every 2-3 years. Cars like the Boss, GT350, Bullitt, and Mach 1 were all slotting in a similar tier and all replaced each other. Most recently the DH replaced the Mach 1. It doesn't make sense for Ford to produce competeing specialty performance packages of similar comparison like the DH and Boss or Corbra at the same time. So for that reason, I dont think we will see the DH as a permanent edition.

I don't count the GTD as that's on a whole different level of performance.

You going with 3 year dh and then a big block blown boss?

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[AZ_Ryan]

Just what we need. A heavier, more complex, and more expensive Mustang. I see a hybrid in the future just not with a V8.

My guess is the hybrid variant will go into what ever 4-door abomination they come up with. The standard Mustang will stay all natural V8 for a good while longer.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

You going with 3 year dh and then a big block blown boss?

Who said anything about a big block blown Boss? The last Boss 302 was a suped up Coyote made for the track. A newer version could easily slide in as a DH replacement.

 

[Zig]

Who said anything about a big block blown Boss? The last Boss 302 was a suped up Coyote made for the track. A newer version could easily slide in as a DH replacement.

Now that they have the sc package would anything less be worth it?

 

[Bikeman315]

The hostorical precedent of the last 25 years or so is that Ford rotates their specialty performance packages every 2-3 years. Cars like the Boss, GT350, Bullitt, and Mach 1 were all slotting in a similar tier and all replaced each other. Most recently the DH replaced the Mach 1. It doesn't make sense for Ford to produce competeing specialty performance packages of similar comparison like the DH and Boss or Corbra at the same time. So for that reason, I dont think we will see the DH as a permanent edition.

I don't count the GTD as that's on a whole different level of performance.

Ford made it pretty clear at the launch of the Dark Horse that this was going to be the new top of the line production model using a brand new name. No where did I read that this was going to be a limited production vehicle.

That said I beleive the new "Super" Mustang will need to be supercharged much like the old GT500. And most likely the 5.2. Why? Well they are going to need a HP rating equal top or more than the GT500. The only way to do that is with a SC'ed 5.2.

 

[RebelMan]

The hostorical precedent of the last 25 years or so is that Ford rotates their specialty performance packages every 2-3 years. Cars like the Boss, GT350, Bullitt, and Mach 1 were all slotting in a similar tier and all replaced each other. Most recently the DH replaced the Mach 1. It doesn't make sense for Ford to produce competeing specialty performance packages of similar comparison like the DH and Boss or Corbra at the same time. So for that reason, I dont think we will see the DH as a permanent edition.

I don't count the GTD as that's on a whole different level of performance.

Well, I hate to state the obvious but Dark Horse by definition does mean "The one YOU didn't see coming." That alone breaks any precedent set in the last 25 years (aka Bullitt, okay so 23 years).

I don't see the Dark Horse as anything but a running plate going forward, no different than GT, and neither does Ford. Like it or not (and this will ruffle some feathers) the Dark Horse designation is today's performance tier (not Shelby) as far as Ford's plans go. In time this will come more to light.

Today's Mustang is not limited to just one or two trim styles, it's a very different climate. Remember we also have the Dark Horse S and Dark Horse R in addition to the Dark Horse, horse. And like it or not the GTD is part of that vision too, albeit an extreme take on it. Keep in mind Ford didn't have to do the GTD but they want to compete at every level. Last year was at the GT3 level. Next year (time) it will be at the top level.

I think you need to get use to the idea of Mustang becoming its own brand. It's happening.

 

[RebelMan]

The GTD is in an untouchable position. Think of it as the difference between the GT & GT500. And the 500 was supercharged.

I don't disagree BUT you neglect to consider that people are going to make the comparison regardless.

Let's also be honest, supercharged Mustangs are no longer exclusivities. Any GT can be a "Cobra" just not a factory built one UNLESS you are considering the FP800 package which again is just another derivative of the same thing.

However, a high-performance NA variant would set itself apart from the run-of-the-mill supercharged also-rans and that could be pretty dang cool.

 

[Bikeman315]

I don't disagree BUT you neglect to consider that people are going to make the comparison regardless.

Let's also be honest, supercharged Mustangs are no longer exclusivities. Any GT can be a "Cobra" just not a factory built one UNLESS you are considering the FP800 package which again is just another derivative of the same thing.

However, a high-performance NA variant would set itself apart from the run-of-the-mill supercharged also-rans and that could be pretty dang cool.

Although I agree with you it is common knowledge that the NA 5.0 has reached its horsepower limit. Now what could Ford do with a NA 5.2? Who knows but it would have to be a hell of a lot more than the GT350. And why bother? A SC is just so much easier.

 

[RebelMan]

Although I agree with you it is common knowledge that the NA 5.0 has reached its horsepower limit. Now what could Ford do with a NA 5.2? Who knows but it would have to be a hell of a lot more than the GT350. And why bother? A SC is just so much easier.

Heh, you must have missed my earlier post about the NA 5.2. Easier yes, but oh so different.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

Well, I hate to state the obvious but Dark Horse by definition does mean "The one YOU didn't see coming." That alone breaks any precedent set in the last 25 years (aka Bullitt, okay so 23 years).

I don't see the Dark Horse as anything but a running plate going forward, no different than GT, and neither does Ford. Like it or not (and this will ruffle some feathers) the Dark Horse designation is today's performance tier (not Shelby) as far as Ford's plans go. In time this will come more to light.

Today's Mustang is not limited to just one or two trim styles, it's a very different climate. Remember we also have the Dark Horse S and Dark Horse R in addition to the Dark Horse, horse. And like it or not the GTD is part of that vision too, albeit an extreme take on it. Keep in mind Ford didn't have to do the GTD but they want to compete at every level. Last year was at the GT3 level. Next year (time) it will be at the top level.

I think you need to get use to the idea of Mustang becoming its own brand. It's happening.

Hey, if the DH stays around that's fine. I don't have a problem with the car. I'm just pointing out the historical trend that says Ford prefers a rotation over of their specialty variants. It doesn't make any sense for them to have multiple performance trim packages obove the GT (DH, Boss, Cobra) at the same time. Especially at a time when sales are so poor.

As far as your comment about the Mustang becoming its own brand...it did that 60 years ago lol.

 

[RebelMan]

Hey, if the DH stays around that's fine. I don't have a problem with the car. I'm just pointing out the historical trend that says Ford prefers a rotation over of their specialty variants. It doesn't make any sense for them to have multiple performance trim packages obove the GT (DH, Boss, Cobra) at the same time. Especially at a time when sales are so poor.

As far as your comment about the Mustang becoming its own brand...it did that 60 years ago lol.

I follow you but your logic is no longer relevant in todays market. History is not a good predictor either. If it were then you would have seen the Mach-E a mile away.

I find it extremely laughable when people (other than Ford) says sales are poor. Where's your proof? Sales numbers are down but that does not imply poor. As long as the model is profitable then it's successful. Until Ford comes out and says sales are poor, then they are not.

I appreciate your humor about the branding but let's be real because it's about to get REAL.

 

[Bikeman315]

Heh, you must have missed my earlier post about the NA 5.2. Easier yes, but oh so different.

A Dark Horse makes 500HP. The GT350 has 526HP. Presuming we are getting a new Special Edition you would be looking at a base of say $85-90K. How much horsepower would you want for that kind of money? At least 600 you say. Do you really think they can get that reliably from a NA 5.2? I doubt it.

 

[Cz_Ziemniak]

I made my point 3 times over with this. Just because you think they look very different doesn't make it a seperate generation. But my all means keep arguing over a meaningless point to the topic my guy.

2011+ S197 had a different body, completely new engine platform, some interior changes, suspension changes. It was about as different as the S550 to S650 change, in some ways moreso.

Similar thing happened with the SN95 generation.

Like it or not, the S550 and S650 feel like one of the previous face lifts, not enough changes in many peoples eyes to differentiate it from the past. Its only really a whole new generation in name and ECU.

You can argue the literal point that Ford calls the S197 facelift the same generation, but it was a bigger change in many ways versus the S550 to S650.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

I follow you but your logic is no longer relevant in todays market. History is not a good predictor either. If it were then you would have seen the Mach-E a mile away.

The whole reason the Dark Horse is called a Dark Horse and not a Mach 1 is because of the Mach-e. And yes, everyone saw that coming. And we all know more electric mustang variants are coming too. And to say history is not a good predictor is just a silly statement that people who dont know history say.

I find it extremely laughable when people (other than Ford) says sales are poor. Where's your proof? Sales numbers are down but that does not imply poor. As long as the model is profitable then it's successful. Until Ford comes out and says sales are poor, then they are not.

Do you live under a rock or are you just joking here? You don't need to work for Ford to read sales figures. Try using the internet or even doing a search on this forum.

I appreciate your humor about the branding but let's be real because it's about to get REAL.

Real? Lol explain to me what that means and how it hasn't been "real" for the last 60 years.

 

[Marty1000]

Here is a cut from J.Farley on LINKEDIN. Looks like racing will keep the Mustang and the V8 around for few more years for sure.

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