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Dark Horse vs Mach 1 - faster, heavier?

IPOGT

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It sure looks like a lot more computerized technology on the S650, I wouldn't be too sure.
Ford even has the ability to turn off cars features if you don't pay your car payment now...saw this on the news today.
I felt grateful when I saw that. Knew that was coming.
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Hack

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I would expect the new GT to be slightly faster than the Mach 1 on track and the DH will be a little faster yet. The specs don't show how that would happen, but we all see from the Mach 1 track results that aero improvements can be huge on larger tracks. Mach 1 is close to the GT350 lap time even though it's down ~40 HP or so.

This would repeat what Ford usually tries to do. LIke the 2015 GT is faster around a track than the 2012 Boss 302.

Unless Ford completely gave up on performance with the S650. I could see that being possible, but it would surprise me a lot.
 

MidwayJ

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I would expect the new GT to be slightly faster than the Mach 1 on track and the DH will be a little faster yet. The specs don't show how that would happen, but we all see from the Mach 1 track results that aero improvements can be huge on larger tracks. Mach 1 is close to the GT350 lap time even though it's down ~40 HP or so.

This would repeat what Ford usually tries to do. LIke the 2015 GT is faster around a track than the 2012 Boss 302.

Unless Ford completely gave up on performance with the S650. I could see that being possible, but it would surprise me a lot.
The 2015 S550 was faster around a road course than a Boss 302, despite having less horsepower, because of the new, better platform with IRS, etc. In contrast, the S650 from a performance standpoint is more like the 2018 refresh. (Obviously bigger changes in exterior styling and interior.) The S650 GT might be slightly faster around a track than a Mach 1 without the handling package, but only because of a few more horsepower. And you'll still need the Dark Horse to get the oil and differential coolers of the Mach 1.
 

shogun32

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won't be a mouthful of spit of difference between them, once you control for tires and omit the carbon wheels.

The "15 HP" is just marketing or at best only realized on an engine dyno under scrupulously controlled conditions. IOW nonsense to buy a DH over a M1 unless you like the styling and that postal-inspiring gauge pack.

Which do you hate less? Penis sticker or glass instruments and non-optional surveillance tech?
 

Hack

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The 2015 S550 was faster around a road course than a Boss 302, despite having less horsepower, because of the new, better platform with IRS, etc. In contrast, the S650 from a performance standpoint is more like the 2018 refresh. (Obviously bigger changes in exterior styling and interior.) The S650 GT might be slightly faster around a track than a Mach 1 without the handling package, but only because of a few more horsepower. And you'll still need the Dark Horse to get the oil and differential coolers of the Mach 1.
Well, if you believe that the Mach 1 is close in potential lap times to the significantly more powerful GT350R, then it's not much of a stretch to believe it's possible for the S650 to be faster than the Mach when they make equal power.

won't be a mouthful of spit of difference between them, once you control for tires and omit the carbon wheels.

The "15 HP" is just marketing or at best only realized on an engine dyno under scrupulously controlled conditions. IOW nonsense to buy a DH over a M1 unless you like the styling and that postal-inspiring gauge pack.
It should be interesting to see if there's a difference or not. I disagree with "controlling" for tires and wheels. Might as well talk about tuning or power adders on an older, slower car. If the new car comes with superior equipment that makes it faster than the old car, then it's faster.
 


IPOGT

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won't be a mouthful of spit of difference between them, once you control for tires and omit the carbon wheels.

The "15 HP" is just marketing or at best only realized on an engine dyno under scrupulously controlled conditions. IOW nonsense to buy a DH over a M1 unless you like the styling and that postal-inspiring gauge pack.

Which do you hate less? Penis sticker or glass instruments and non-optional surveillance tech?
won't be a mouthful of spit of difference between them, once you control for tires and omit the carbon wheels.

The "15 HP" is just marketing or at best only realized on an engine dyno under scrupulously controlled conditions. IOW nonsense to buy a DH over a M1 unless you like the styling and that postal-inspiring gauge pack.

Which do you hate less? Penis sticker or glass instruments and non-optional surveillance tech?
ā€penis stickerā€ šŸ˜‚ That is a bit bizarre.
 
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Polo08816

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What I've read thus far, performance-wise, they are effectively the same car.

Hands-on reviews would begin in the Spring?

At least in the first year or two, I consider the Mach 1 to be the better buy.

Pricing for the DH will be greater, with the possibility of an ADM. Once production settles down, and the interest softens, things might return to an experience bordering on normal. IDK. The possibility of the last, only ICE muscle car might keep things inflated.

IMO, the S550 has better quality overall, especially in '21 and '22. The S650 will have its own quirks and issues, still undiscovered; it will take a year or two of owner experiences to bring those to light.
I think the interest is pretty soft now according to this site compared to this time of S550 release. Also the economy is in a different place. Thatā€™s why linking them was a good move to generate activity.
You think interest is soft? Not challenging your point, asking a question. I was told by one dealer that I was 60th on a list for a DH when their allocation is 5.

Based off percentages I donā€™t see getting a GT / PP / MagneRide either.
I think by 2025, we'll see near invoice pricing on the DH. The problem I see that the DH faces is that the supply for C8 Corvettes (non Z06) is improving to the point where we'll probably see below MSRP deals on those.

And realistically, the price difference isn't that great. Someone who is going to be able to afford a $70k MSRP for a DH + Handling Pack + Recaros probably can afford a $85k MSRP for a C8 2LT Z51.
 

Ryunker

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I think by 2025, we'll see near invoice pricing on the DH. The problem I see that the DH faces is that the supply for C8 Corvettes (non Z06) is improving to the point where we'll probably see below MSRP deals on those.

And realistically, the price difference isn't that great. Someone who is going to be able to afford a $70k MSRP for a DH + Handling Pack + Recaros probably can afford a $85k MSRP for a C8 2LT Z51.
And end up with not as cool of a car as the DH.
 

Polo08816

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And end up with not as cool of a car as the DH.
I think they're both pretty cool.

I think the C8 Z51 is going to be the faster car at the track, however, the DH will have lower running costs which is an important factor for those who track often.
 

Ryunker

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I think they're both pretty cool.

I think the C8 Z51 is going to be the faster car at the track, however, the DH will have lower running costs which is an important factor for those who track often.
and the DH isn't a chevy
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