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Auto stop start on a 2025 GT premium.

young at heart

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Think of it as a semi truck tire vs. A normal tire, which one covers the most miles in it’s life
Hey Keith at the risk of watering down a really tantalizing discussion, what’s a 2024.5 Dark Horse? Is that really a thing? Mine was late production (blend 10/09/24) so just wondered if there’s some difference.
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Gregs24

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OK man, time to come clean!

I think I may have it figured out🤣.

Is it true that you were the head engineer on the A.S.S. system many years ago and continue to be paid a per unit royalty every time one leaves the factory?
Nope, just can't see why some people have a problem with proven technology.
 

Gregs24

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Hey Keith at the risk of watering down a really tantalizing discussion, what’s a 2024.5 Dark Horse? Is that really a thing? Mine was late production (blend 10/09/24) so just wondered if there’s some difference.
Not wishing to jump in before Keith in particular but there is a whole thread on this in the Australian section. We get our model year split into as many as 4 parts so yes 2024.5 is a thing here.

As regards spec, UK/EU cars are a completely unique spec that doesn't reflect anything you have in the US

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young at heart

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Nope, just can't see why some people have a problem with proven technology.
Greg, being serious for a moment I think your comment goes right to the heart of a prime reason for the world being so polarized today. Whether technology is or is not proven, accurate and even sensible isn’t always the deciding factor in it‘s acceptance. It often comes down to nothing more than individual preferences, likes and dislikes. Folks who believe in certain technology, proven or otherwise, often just can neither understand nor abide another person‘s disdain for it.

Right, wrong or somewhere in between is frequently irrelevant to me regarding automotive design. I just like what I like, and there are probably many like me that won’t admit it so freely and waste time trying to justify their position.

Not impossible it’s an age thing to some extent; I’m pretty old.
 

coult

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Greg, being serious for a moment I think your comment goes right to the heart of a prime reason for the world being so polarized today. Whether technology is or is not proven, accurate and even sensible isn’t always the deciding factor in it‘s acceptance. It often comes down to nothing more than individual preferences, likes and dislikes. Folks who believe in certain technology, proven or otherwise, often just can neither understand nor abide another person‘s disdain for it.

Right, wrong or somewhere in between is frequently irrelevant to me regarding automotive design. I just like what I like, and there are probably many like me that won’t admit it so freely and waste time trying to justify their position.

Not impossible it’s an age thing to some extent; I’m pretty old.
That's what I meant when I said gut feeling. We like or dislike in an irrational way. That's part of the fun.
 


Zig

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You're comparing a V8 muscle car that puts out 480hp to a V6 SUV that puts out 310hp. A more honest comparison would be a Mustang GT with A.S.S. and cylinder deactivation vs a Mustang GT without those features, and make it four cars so you could have a manual transmission and an automatic in each category.
^ real world, same driver. Is 176 hp worth an average 1.8mpg? All the fancy smancy fuel sipping tech and yet little big v8 aint much worse. Seems the epa owes me my gas guzzler tax back, their estimates are used for the ‘fee/tax’ but yet….
 

Gregs24

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Greg, being serious for a moment I think your comment goes right to the heart of a prime reason for the world being so polarized today. Whether technology is or is not proven, accurate and even sensible isn’t always the deciding factor in it‘s acceptance. It often comes down to nothing more than individual preferences, likes and dislikes. Folks who believe in certain technology, proven or otherwise, often just can neither understand nor abide another person‘s disdain for it.

Right, wrong or somewhere in between is frequently irrelevant to me regarding automotive design. I just like what I like, and there are probably many like me that won’t admit it so freely and waste time trying to justify their position.

Not impossible it’s an age thing to some extent; I’m pretty old.
I completely agree with that, but it doesn't make it logical! I personally dislike Lane Assist and always turn it off, but then as a technology it isn't really very good yet. I have driven some cars with stop start that were very poorly done (quite a few years ago) but my experience with Ford stop start has always been very positive. I also really like that stop start saves fuel (5% to 15% depending on vehicle use) with a global knock on benefit. I completely understand if you or anybody want to choose to turn off stop start BUT what I do find silly is the ridiculous non evidence based 'reasons' why it shouldn't be fitted when there is a huge amount of independent data and evidence to prove it works reliably.

Why can't people just say I turn it off because I don't like it rather than coming up with bullsh*t reasons that are simply not true?

Opinions do not affect evidence, but evidence should affect opinions - a few more people should take this onboard!
 

Gregs24

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That's what I meant when I said gut feeling. We like or dislike in an irrational way. That's part of the fun.
Yes indeed, but don't believe your own bullsh*t either. Remember why you are doing it is not logical or evidence based, but a whim.
 

Zig

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I completely agree with that, but it doesn't make it logical! I personally dislike Lane Assist and always turn it off, but then as a technology it isn't really very good yet. I have driven some cars with stop start that were very poorly done (quite a few years ago) but my experience with Ford stop start has always been very positive. I also really like that stop start saves fuel (5% to 15% depending on vehicle use) with a global knock on benefit. I completely understand if you or anybody want to choose to turn off stop start BUT what I do find silly is the ridiculous non evidence based 'reasons' why it shouldn't be fitted when there is a huge amount of independent data and evidence to prove it works reliably.

Why can't people just say I turn it off because I don't like it rather than coming up with bullsh*t reasons that are simply not true?

Opinions do not affect evidence, but evidence should affect opinions - a few more people should take this onboard!
It wouldn’t (going out in a limb since wouldn’t in this case is determinative) be a problem if it wasn’t forced, if it was a selective persistent setting it would fall into the acceptable category.
 

coult

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Yes indeed, but don't believe your own bullsh*t either. Remember why you are doing it is not logical or evidence based, but a whim.
You seem to like quoting Gregs. So would you please be so kind and quote the bullshit part of what I wrote.

I believe I said my engine turns off while I'm still in the garage and that it don't like it. Plus that I'm not sure if long idling in gear could be bad for the clutch.
 

Alan Applegate

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Without doubt, the biggest issue drivers face is distraction. There are a variety of devices which add their share to distraction, not the least of which are the toy-like display screens we all stare at from time to time.

I mentioned previously the now defunct seat belt anti-start scenario. It was such a distraction, own's started to sit on buckled belts rather than put up with the whole safety misthought! For me at least, the ASS is another misthought. Yes, I'm sure one can use the same statistics to prove a point one way or the other. But in the final analysis, if the majority of the drivers turn the darn thing off, what good is it? The answer is glaringly obvious!
 

keithwalton

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The one without the start stop covers the most miles. Less wear and tear.
You missed the point as I was on about tires...

But to follow your line of thinking it would actually be the car with stop start but never uses it.
As it has the more durable parts but has less wear rate on them.

Maybe ford should of given you the option (they kinda did with early job 1 cars) of either having not having the feature or having it and paying 1000 less for the vehicle.

As for what good is it ? Well it forced ford to build a more durable engine and starting system.

Ford are notorious for building things to a design life so that eventually you'll have to buy another one.


Also engine turns off whilst still in the garage ?
Please explain more ? Under what circumstances does it do this ? Is it the max idle time shut off instead ? As that can be changed
 

Gregs24

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You seem to like quoting Gregs. So would you please be so kind and quote the bullshit part of what I wrote.

I believe I said my engine turns off while I'm still in the garage and that it don't like it. Plus that I'm not sure if long idling in gear could be bad for the clutch.
I wasn't specifically meaning you, although all of us are guilty of bullsh*t at times, we just need the bullsh*t filter available!

Not sure why your car turns off in the garage - that is NOT normal stop start behaviour as it shouldn't work until the car has reached a certain temperature and the cold start cycle has completed.

Idling with the clutch in isn't going to be a problem in a modern car, your leg will give out before the bearings are damaged!
 

Gregs24

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Without doubt, the biggest issue drivers face is distraction. There are a variety of devices which add their share to distraction, not the least of which are the toy-like display screens we all stare at from time to time.

I mentioned previously the now defunct seat belt anti-start scenario. It was such a distraction, own's started to sit on buckled belts rather than put up with the whole safety misthought! For me at least, the ASS is another misthought. Yes, I'm sure one can use the same statistics to prove a point one way or the other. But in the final analysis, if the majority of the drivers turn the darn thing off, what good is it? The answer is glaringly obvious!
Not sure how it can be a distraction? If it is then you are very easily distracted!

There is little data on how many drivers turn off S/S each journey, but it seems to upset some of you in the US far more than elsewhere. Anonymised connected vehicle data will record this, so I suspect car makers have some information. The answer isn't 'glaringly obvious' or 'without doubt' at all without actual data, unless you have some? I'm sure you realise what you and your friends do is not considered statistical data on a country / global scale.

It really isn't a big deal though as hybrids will mean pure ICE stop start systems will become a non entity in new cars in the next 10 years or so. Hybrids only use the engine when they need to and there is no off button to control when that happens. These may be mHEV or FHEV but for example the US best selling car the Toyota Camry will be hybrid only soon as well as much of the rest of their range.

I regularly drive a plug in hybrid and there is no distraction from the engine cutting in and out (it is very quiet anyway).
 

RaceRedder

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You missed the point as I was on about tires...

But to follow your line of thinking it would actually be the car with stop start but never uses it.
As it has the more durable parts but has less wear rate on them.

Maybe ford should of given you the option (they kinda did with early job 1 cars) of either having not having the feature or having it and paying 1000 less for the vehicle.

As for what good is it ? Well it forced ford to build a more durable engine and starting system.

Ford are notorious for building things to a design life so that eventually you'll have to buy another one.


Also engine turns off whilst still in the garage ?
Please explain more ? Under what circumstances does it do this ? Is it the max idle time shut off instead ? As that can be changed
The engine is more durable with start stop? You really believe there are engine differences between the Mustangs with and Mustangs without start stop? Lol.
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