Auto stop start on a 2025 GT premium.

[Zig]

^ Ford Mustang Gt (v8 non auto stop version)

^ cadillac xt5 (v6 with cylinder deactivation and auto stop)

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[coult]

I hope I don't contribute to any political discussion, because a car forum is not the best place to do so.
Having said that - my engine turns off while im still moving out of my garage. That cannot be good and instantly alerts my empathy for mechanical systems. It's a gut feel that doesn't get any better by thinking about it.

Also, somebody here wrote that S/S does not activate on a manual when idling with a gear in and the clutch pedal pressed down. I learned that I should never do that with my Land Rover Defender, because it's killing the clutch. I neither know if this is correct, nor if it is also the case with a Mustang. But both cars have the MT82 transmission and the underlying technical reason for the wear that idling in gear allegedly causes, should apply to any transmission anyway. Plus it affects my mechanical empathy as well, which is the reason I cannot stay silent.

 

[Alan Applegate]

If memory serves, it was 1975 when those darn seat belt interlocks wouldn't even let you back out of the garage to wash your car! What a drag. I think every car owner wanted to slay the idiot who dreamt them up. Auto stop/start must be the guy's son!

 

[Gregs24]

I hope I don't contribute to any political discussion, because a car forum is not the best place to do so.
Having said that - my engine turns off while im still moving out of my garage. That cannot be good and instantly alerts my empathy for mechanical systems. It's a gut feel that doesn't get any better by thinking about it.

Also, somebody here wrote that S/S does not activate on a manual when idling with a gear in and the clutch pedal pressed down. I learned that I should never do that with my Land Rover Defender, because it's killing the clutch. I neither know if this is correct, nor if it is also the case with a Mustang. But both cars have the MT82 transmission and the underlying technical reason for the wear that idling in gear allegedly causes, should apply to any transmission anyway. Plus it affects my mechanical empathy as well, which is the reason I cannot stay silent.

Ford and other manufacturers know how their systems work, indeed many shut off the engine before the car has stopped (my son's Porsche 911 being one such example). The systems are designed to work that way and have been for 25+ years so they know more about stop start systems than most people have forgotten!

There is a huge database of vehicles and reliability data that proves stop start systems do NOT cause longevity problems. And yet some choose to ignore it.

Don't worry about it.

Here is a link with a summary and some actual evidence from a UK motoring association (for car owners not car makers)

Stop-start engines and engine idling – the law and common myths revealed | RAC Drive

 

[RaceRedder]

Ford and other manufacturers know how their systems work, indeed many shut off the engine before the car has stopped (my son's Porsche 911 being one such example). The systems are designed to work that way and have been for 25+ years so they know more about stop start systems than most people have forgotten!

There is a huge database of vehicles and reliability data that proves stop start systems do NOT cause longevity problems. And yet some choose to ignore it.

Don't worry about it.

Here is a link with a summary and some actual evidence from a UK motoring association (for car owners not car makers)

Stop-start engines and engine idling – the law and common myths revealed | RAC Drive

It's basic knowledge that parts wear and tear faster when using it more. No science needed for that.

The fact that you trust Ford engineers over basic knowledge is disturbing. Engineers are not hired to make a bullet proof tank. They are hired to make a car as cheap as possible and to make as much profit as possible. A car that doesn't break down that easily is not good for the company.

I agree, the wear and tear is not that bad as many think, but it is better without it.

 

[Kitulu]

To be fair cylinder deactivation has come a long way from those early systems and most operate seamlessly and without any ill effects now. A lot more cars have the systems now and many people would have no idea they were there or working. Ford have made over 5 million 3 cylinder Ecoboost engines globally and although the engine does have some issues, cylinder deactivation is not one of them despite almost all of them having it in place.

How many cylinders does the 3 cyl ecoboost deactivate, and how would that even work with a 3 cyl engine?

I'm just glad that my 'Stang has neither the A.S.S., or a skip-shift. Start the engine and row the gears, as God intended!

 

[Kitulu]

^ Ford Mustang Gt (v8 non auto stop version)

^ cadillac xt5 (v6 with cylinder deactivation and auto stop)

You're comparing a V8 muscle car that puts out 480hp to a V6 SUV that puts out 310hp. A more honest comparison would be a Mustang GT with A.S.S. and cylinder deactivation vs a Mustang GT without those features, and make it four cars so you could have a manual transmission and an automatic in each category.

 

[keithwalton]

It's basic knowledge that parts wear and tear faster when using it more. No science needed for that.

The fact that you trust Ford engineers over basic knowledge is disturbing. Engineers are not hired to make a bullet proof tank. They are hired to make a car as cheap as possible and to make as much profit as possible. A car that doesn't break down that easily is not good for the company.

I agree, the wear and tear is not that bad as many think, but it is better without it.

Not all engineers work that way, the design engineers would go after that tank. Production engineers would like to as well but accountants say otherwise.

As an automotive r&d engineer we design and test the best part we can make. (Usually one engine part costs more than the production engine) We learn from that test and make an even better part. Then we optimise out features that don’t add any value. (Like coating an entire part when it’s only needed in a area)

Then when it comes to mass production the parts get much cheaper as making 10,000 of something is similar to making 10. As in production the majority of the cost is in the tooling / line and not the raw materials going through it.

auto start / stop is widely used and understood buy eu / jdm to the point it is the normal rather than an add on. Engines will maintain oil and pressure in critical areas during a hot restart.

Also if the system is cutting in as you’re pulling out of the garage for the first time of the day something is wrong with it.
There are a number of conditions that must be satisfied for it to work and shortly after a cold start would fail that. Use of reverse also disables it.

 

[RaceRedder]

Not all engineers work that way, the design engineers would go after that tank. Production engineers would like to as well but accountants say otherwise.

As an automotive r&d engineer we design and test the best part we can make. (Usually one engine part costs more than the production engine) We learn from that test and make an even better part. Then we optimise out features that don’t add any value. (Like coating an entire part when it’s only needed in a area)

Then when it comes to mass production the parts get much cheaper as making 10,000 of something is similar to making 10. As in production the majority of the cost is in the tooling / line and not the raw materials going through it.

auto start / stop is widely used and understood buy eu / jdm to the point it is the normal rather than an add on. Engines will maintain oil and pressure in critical areas during a hot restart.

Also if the system is cutting in as you’re pulling out of the garage for the first time of the day something is wrong with it.
There are a number of conditions that must be satisfied for it to work and shortly after a cold start would fail that. Use of reverse also disables it.

I never said that the start stop always works. I have the start stop in my vehicle for 13 years now and I know that it mist meet criteria to let it work. That doesnt change the fact that a part that is used more often wears down quicker.

 

[Gregs24]

How many cylinders does the 3 cyl ecoboost deactivate, and how would that even work with a 3 cyl engine?

I'm just glad that my 'Stang has neither the A.S.S., or a skip-shift. Start the engine and row the gears, as God intended!

It deactivates one cylinder using a rocker under steady state low load. I've driven quite a few and you can sometimes just about notice it but mostly imperceptible. It was introduced in 2016 so in use for quite some time.

Ford to Offer Fuel-Saving Cylinder Deactivation Tech for 1.0 Litre EcoBoost; Global First for a 3-Cylinder Engine | Ford of Europe | Ford Media Center

Auto mustangs will skip shift, A10 always had this feature and makes complete sense.

 

[Gregs24]

I never said that the start stop always works. I have the start stop in my vehicle for 13 years now and I know that it mist meet criteria to let it work. That doesnt change the fact that a part that is used more often wears down quicker.

Component lifing seems to have passed you by. Starters, batteries etc on stop start cars are DESIGNED for the role where the engineers know that the use will be higher, more frequent and need to be quicker etc.

The trouble with 'basic knowledge' is that it is basic and means that the detailed knowledge is missing and hence the assumed outcome or prediction is also wrong. Believe me I have encountered a lot of 'basic knowledge' and 'common sense' and it frequently comes up considerably short, despite what the purveyor thinks of themselves!

 

[RaceRedder]

Component lifing seems to have passed you by. Starters, batteries etc on stop start cars are DESIGNED for the role where the engineers know that the use will be higher, more frequent and need to be quicker etc.

The trouble with 'basic knowledge' is that it is basic and means that the detailed knowledge is missing and hence the assumed outcome or prediction is also wrong. Believe me I have encountered a lot of 'basic knowledge' and 'common sense' and it frequently comes up considerably short, despite what the purveyor thinks of themselves!

A tire is also designed to rotate on the roads. The more it rotates the more it wears out.

 

[young at heart]

Component lifing seems to have passed you by. Starters, batteries etc on stop start cars are DESIGNED for the role where the engineers know that the use will be higher, more frequent and need to be quicker etc.

The trouble with 'basic knowledge' is that it is basic and means that the detailed knowledge is missing and hence the assumed outcome or prediction is also wrong. Believe me I have encountered a lot of 'basic knowledge' and 'common sense' and it frequently comes up considerably short, despite what the purveyor thinks of themselves!

OK man, time to come clean!

I think I may have it figured out.

Is it true that you were the head engineer on the A.S.S. system many years ago and continue to be paid a per unit royalty every time one leaves the factory?

 

[keithwalton]

A tire is also designed to rotate on the roads. The more it rotates the more it wears out.

Think of it as a semi truck tire vs. A normal tire, which one covers the most miles in it’s life.

Things like agm batteries are rated to 100’s to thousands more cycles. Does auto stop start kick in 100x per journey… same with starters, it’s also why they cost 2-3xmore.

100x the wear life, used 10x as much = 10x the mtbf. Just costs more to start with

 

[RaceRedder]

Think of it as a semi truck tire vs. A normal tire, which one covers the most miles in it’s life

The one without the start stop covers the most miles. Less wear and tear.

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