One side sticks out further than the other?

[John S]

So this leads me back to my question I guess the alignment kit would still be worth it?

It's kind of a moot point, the the alignment shop will position the cradle without any need or help from the "alignment spacers". if, in the future, you decide to drop the cradle, you can mark the positions of the cradle bushings on the body interface before loosening the cradle bolts and then use the alignment spacers on any corners where the cradle bushing is concentric with the body's threaded insert. The attached images show the serrated end of the insulator bushing and how it's nowhere near concentric with one of my body's threaded inserts so, in that particular corner, using the alignment spacer (shown installed in the insulator bushing) wouldn't allow the bolt to thread into the body. If you have two or more corners where the cradle bushing is centered on the body's threaded insert, using the alignment spacers could save some time repositioning the cradle for DIY amateurs but probably no use to the pros.

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[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

It's kind of a moot point, the the alignment shop will position the cradle without any need or help from the "alignment spacers". if, in the future, you decide to drop the cradle, you can mark the positions of the cradle bushings on the body interface before loosening the cradle bolts and then use the alignment spacers on any corners where the cradle bushing is concentric with the body's threaded insert. The attached images show the serrated end of the insulator bushing and how it's nowhere near concentric with one of my body's threaded inserts so, in that particular corner, using the alignment spacer (shown installed in the insulator bushing) wouldn't allow the bolt to thread into the body. If you have two or more corners where the cradle bushing is centered on the body's threaded insert, using the alignment spacers could save some time repositioning the cradle for DIY amateurs but probably no use to the pros.

Awesome illustration thanks. I’ll bring them with me. I am going to lower it. Looking at ford performance springs and caster camber plates.

 

[Ewags81]

this question is probably directed more at someone in the know like @NegativeMultiplier. i have to figure Ford created the cradles and subframes with that tolerance for a reason, like chassis all react and flex differently as they are pieced and welded together. then HOPEFULLY they install that rear subframe section in some sort of jig to get as close to straight as possible. so you and probably myself might suggest that adding the alignment bushing kit may take the rear end "out of straight" and then the rest of the car (front and rear end alignment) has to be adjusted back to match? i understand the value and purpose of the bushings for r+r repeatability, but do you feel like I'm understanding correctly that possibly it is better to scribe or mark factory rear subframe location and go back to that if is ever disturbed?

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

this question is probably directed more at someone in the know like @NegativeMultiplier. i have to figure Ford created the cradles and subframes with that tolerance for a reason, like chassis all react and flex differently as they are pieced and welded together. then HOPEFULLY they install that rear subframe section in some sort of jig to get as close to straight as possible. so you and probably myself might suggest that adding the alignment bushing kit may take the rear end "out of straight" and then the rest of the car (front and rear end alignment) has to be adjusted back to match? i understand the value and purpose of the bushings for r+r repeatability, but do you feel like I'm understanding correctly that possibly it is better to scribe or mark factory rear subframe location and go back to that if is ever disturbed?

I never thought of it like that. It does make sense in theory. After installing the wheels and tires I have awful wheel gap so it gives me an excuse to lower it. The shop could be able to get it back without them. Now you have me thinking lol.

 

[Sofa King]

If you are worried about your back tires now, just wait until its lowered and the front is like that too. Some shmo at an alignment shop will do the work will set one side at -1.9 camber and the other side will be -1.1. It will technically be in the green , but you visually see the difference just like you can now in the rear. And when you ask him to fix it he's gonna tell you he cant without camber plates. Trust me, I've seen this movie before. You can chance it or you can do it right the first time and not worry later. Its very expensive to add camber plates after the fact because you ran into a problem. If you are spending all the money on springs, wheels and tires, and alignments, just do the job right the first time and get camber plates.

I didn't do springs, so no camber plates... luckily front camber is dead even @ -1.4 (street perfect), caster is bit off 6.9 and 7.1 (within spec). The toe was out of spec in front, and pretty much everything out of spec in the rear from factory. My favorite alignment shop got all the rear specs dead center in the green and the same on both sides after I installed the stop the hop street starter kit (comes with subframe alignment kit).

It's kind of a moot point, the the alignment shop will position the cradle without any need or help from the "alignment spacers". if, in the future, you decide to drop the cradle, you can mark the positions of the cradle bushings on the body interface before loosening the cradle bolts and then use the alignment spacers on any corners where the cradle bushing is concentric with the body's threaded insert. The attached images show the serrated end of the insulator bushing and how it's nowhere near concentric with one of my body's threaded inserts so, in that particular corner, using the alignment spacer (shown installed in the insulator bushing) wouldn't allow the bolt to thread into the body. If you have two or more corners where the cradle bushing is centered on the body's threaded insert, using the alignment spacers could save some time repositioning the cradle for DIY amateurs but probably no use to the pros.

So, are you trying to say that where it is at from the factory is correct? Hahahaha... ok...

 

[NegativeMultiplier]

this question is probably directed more at someone in the know like @NegativeMultiplier. i have to figure Ford created the cradles and subframes with that tolerance for a reason, like chassis all react and flex differently as they are pieced and welded together. then HOPEFULLY they install that rear subframe section in some sort of jig to get as close to straight as possible. so you and probably myself might suggest that adding the alignment bushing kit may take the rear end "out of straight" and then the rest of the car (front and rear end alignment) has to be adjusted back to match? i understand the value and purpose of the bushings for r+r repeatability, but do you feel like I'm understanding correctly that possibly it is better to scribe or mark factory rear subframe location and go back to that if is ever disturbed?

This is actually outside my scope of knowledge. Although I will say I'm not sure what I've done to give off the impression that I'm in the know (but I am flattered - thank you).

 

[GhastlyTT]

this question is probably directed more at someone in the know like @NegativeMultiplier. i have to figure Ford created the cradles and subframes with that tolerance for a reason, like chassis all react and flex differently as they are pieced and welded together. then HOPEFULLY they install that rear subframe section in some sort of jig to get as close to straight as possible. so you and probably myself might suggest that adding the alignment bushing kit may take the rear end "out of straight" and then the rest of the car (front and rear end alignment) has to be adjusted back to match? i understand the value and purpose of the bushings for r+r repeatability, but do you feel like I'm understanding correctly that possibly it is better to scribe or mark factory rear subframe location and go back to that if is ever disturbed?

Likely because of machine assembly.

 

[Ewags81]

This is actually outside my scope of knowledge

my bad i was going for @Neggytive. apologies to both. too fast to click the auto-finish

 

[Neggytive]

this question is probably directed more at someone in the know like @NegativeMultiplier. i have to figure Ford created the cradles and subframes with that tolerance for a reason, like chassis all react and flex differently as they are pieced and welded together. then HOPEFULLY they install that rear subframe section in some sort of jig to get as close to straight as possible. so you and probably myself might suggest that adding the alignment bushing kit may take the rear end "out of straight" and then the rest of the car (front and rear end alignment) has to be adjusted back to match? i understand the value and purpose of the bushings for r+r repeatability, but do you feel like I'm understanding correctly that possibly it is better to scribe or mark factory rear subframe location and go back to that if is ever disturbed?

The reality of mass production is you have to allow for variations in tolerances between parts. On my 92 Cougar the tolerances on the frame/unibody measurements could be plus or minus 8mm one axis and plus or minus 5mm on the other two.

Precision costs money

As far as Ford and alignments they suck, especially on trucks, the lower control arms are held in place by the clamping force of the bolts.

They put the effn provision for alignment cams on the vehicle, but they won't install the cams which would add a whole 4 dollars to the cost of the vehicle.

So the first time you bring the truck to a REPUTABLE alignment shop, they are going to tell you that you should install the cam kit especially if the truck is not very old because the older the truck gets, the harder it is going to be to extract the hardware and install the cams.

Once you install the cams those lower control arms are going to stay where we set them, unless the hardware is loosened.

But it isn't cheap.

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