One side sticks out further than the other?

[Neggytive]

Oh and most chain shops aren't even aware the rear camber is adjustable on these cars (S550 and S650). I had to argue with two techs over it and showed them the technical print out of how to do it.

Well as someone that works in a "Front End Shop" and that is actually 3/4's of our name, I just omitted the town name as the first word, it isn't that techs at chain shops are not aware that there is rear adjustment in all the cars and some even have front adjustment, all they know how to do is "set the toe and let it go".

Town Fair Tire is the worst of the worst.

People will go where it is cheap, not good.

If it is in range it is good to go, even when the left and right sides are at opposite extremes, the "split" will be ignored because they don't get paid enough to make it right.

Can't get green printout, adjust the head until you get in the green and print it as proof the alignment is correct.

The guy that does the alignments where I work, the shop owner is in his late 70's and I have seen him spend a lot of time chasing a tenth of a degree even though it was in range.

There is a reason there is a month or more waiting list to get a performance car or antique on our rack, because when we book a car like that we are blocking out half a day to devote to that car.

We do get cars and trucks with slightly tweaked rear axles, we also get cars especially first gen F bodies where someone has "restored" the car and the rear axle mounting points were not measured out, it was a case of "hey we got all the replacement parts to fit and the gaps look good". Some of the worst stuff we get is something that was dragged up onto a flatbed tow truck using J hooks slung around the axle housings while the front end was still stuck in the mud or around a tree Same with hooking the lower control arms on the front end.

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[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

This (although S550, still plays for the S650):

See it on sale on the site ordering it after I type this. Did a bunch of reading last night this is definitely what I’m experiencing. This kit takes all the play out of the holes where the bolts go and allow it to be the same every single time.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

Just to show why I said I don’t know if I will need camber plates. I found a guy who lowered on ford performance springs and didn’t use them. Getting the camber plates can’t hurt I’m sure. I’m near the famous Triangle speed shop I’m sure they have recommendations for where I can get an alingment.

If you are worried about your back tires now, just wait until its lowered and the front is like that too. Some shmo at an alignment shop will do the work will set one side at -1.9 camber and the other side will be -1.1. It will technically be in the green , but you visually see the difference just like you can now in the rear. And when you ask him to fix it he's gonna tell you he cant without camber plates. Trust me, I've seen this movie before. You can chance it or you can do it right the first time and not worry later. Its very expensive to add camber plates after the fact because you ran into a problem. If you are spending all the money on springs, wheels and tires, and alignments, just do the job right the first time and get camber plates.

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

If you are worried about your back tires now, just wait until its lowered and the front is like that too. Some shmo at an alignment shop will do the work will set one side at -1.9 camber and the other side will be -1.1. It will technically be in the green , but you visually see the difference just like you can now in the rear. And when you ask him to fix it he's gonna tell you he cant without camber plates. Trust me, I've seen this movie before. You can chance it or you can do it right the first time and not worry later. Its very expensive to add camber plates after the fact because you ran into a problem. If you are spending all the money on springs, wheels and tires, and alignments, just do the job right the first time and get camber plates.

Yeah I made the decision last night to get camber plates it can’t hurt. But I did track down an alignment and suspension shop about an hr away that can install the subframe alignment pins and align for $150. Top rated in Houston for lowering and suspension work. They will do springs for $599 so I found a gem.

 

[tj@steeda]

The camber plates are one of those parts - you may not need them & everything works as intended. But if you do need them, taking the car apart again to have them installed is never fun ... so we always recommend doing them at the same time to save on time, money & peace of mind

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

Is there anything else needed while lowering other than subframe alignment kit which I have on order springs and camber plates?

 

[John S]

Assuming your rear cradle was properly positioned at the factory, you should still see the witness marks the serrated bushing sleeves left on the body mount interface. Those "allinment spacers" everyons sells simply removes the slop in the cradel bushing hole by centering the cradel hole but the real surprise comes when those centered holes don't allign with the threaded inserts in the body. Which is exactly why there is slop in the cradel, it needs to have some tolerance compliance to allow proper positioning on the body and it sounds like the dealer just slapped it back on without insuring it was positioned exactly as when it left the factory. I installed the "alignment spacers" on my car plus Keltrack's stud kit to simplify cradle drops but only two of the centering spacers matched the factory mounting positioning. I also installed the "alignment spacers" on my sons GT and three of the four aligned with the factory mounting points while the fourth spacer wasn't even close to being useable. Before you start jacking around with alignments, spacers, adjustable control arms, or any other band-aids, insure your cradle is properly positioned. I'll bet everything will be fine again.

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

Assuming your rear cradle was properly positioned at the factory, you should still see the witness marks the serrated bushing sleeves left on the body mount interface. Those "allinment spacers" everyons sells simply removes the slop in the cradel bushing hole by centering the cradel hole but the real surprise comes when those centered holes don't allign with the threaded inserts in the body. Which is exactly why there is slop in the cradel, it needs to have some tolerance compliance to allow proper positioning on the body and it sounds like the dealer just slapped it back on without insuring it was positioned exactly as when it left the factory. I installed the "alignment spacers" on my car plus Keltrack's stud kit to simplify cradle drops but only two of the centering spacers matched the factory mounting positioning. I also installed the "alignment spacers" on my sons GT and three of the four aligned with the factory mounting points while the fourth spacer wasn't even close to being useable. Before you start jacking around with alignments, spacers, adjustable control arms, or any other band-aids, insure your cradle is properly positioned. I'll bet everything will be fine again.

What did you do about each one that didn’t match up? What is the best way to make sure the cradle is properly positioned without adding the other stuff you mentioned? I thought that was the whole point of the alignment kit.

 

[John S]

I marked the installed positions of the insulator bushings on the body before dropping the cradle, that's when I noticed the distinct witness marks left buy the insulator center sleeves with the oversized holes once the cradle was off the car. If you're lucky, the body's embedded threaded inserts will be concentric with the large bushing sleeve and the "alignment spacer" will make re-assembly alignment a breeze. However, I wasn't that lucky with my car and I couldn't use two of the spacers but it still helped position the cradle very close to the original installation and some careful jockeying of the cradle got the installed outer diameters of the cradle isolator mounts to perfectly match my scribed marks on the body. My son's car had better tolerances where the cradle holes were concentric with three of the body threaded inserts so we used three alignment spacers on the cradle and the cradle went back into perfect positioning without any jockeying. I suspect the dealer didn't take the time to note the before and after positioning of the cradle so now the cradle is not properly positioned. If you don't plan on doing your own future cradle drops, there's little point in using the time-saving alignment spacers. The Dealer should start over with a new set of bolts and jocky the cradle into its proper position. Our rear alignments were fine before we dropped the cradles and they were still spot on after we installed the cradles so, hopefully, your alignment concerns will take care of themselves once the cradle is properly mounted.

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

I marked the installed positions of the insulator bushings on the body before dropping the cradle, that's when I noticed the distinct witness marks left buy the insulator center sleeves with the oversized holes once the cradle was off the car. If you're lucky, the body's embedded threaded inserts will be concentric with the large bushing sleeve and the "alignment spacer" will make re-assembly alignment a breeze. However, I wasn't that lucky with my car and I couldn't use two of the spacers but it still helped position the cradle very close to the original installation and some careful jockeying of the cradle got the installed outer diameters of the cradle isolator mounts to perfectly match my scribed marks on the body. My son's car had better tolerances where the cradle holes were concentric with three of the body threaded inserts so we used three alignment spacers on the cradle and the cradle went back into perfect positioning without any jockeying. I suspect the dealer didn't take the time to note the before and after positioning of the cradle so now the cradle is not properly positioned. If you don't plan on doing your own future cradle drops, there's little point in using the time-saving alignment spacers. The Dealer should start over with a new set of bolts and jocky the cradle into its proper position. Our rear alignments were fine before we dropped the cradles and they were still spot on after we installed the cradles so, hopefully, your alignment concerns will take care of themselves once the cradle is properly mounted.

Well I have the Steeda kit on order I’m strongly considering lowering the car at the same time with the camber plates and alignment kit just to be one and done. Instead of jockeying around with the dealer. I guess it’s possible my car has been like this since I bought it and the small 255 wheels concealed it. The shop I have chosen is very highly rated and they only do suspension work I’m hopeful everything will roll over smooth. If the dealer didn’t put it back right on reassembly I’d hate to have them try and undo their own mistake if it was theirs. Whether I got it like this from factory or it was done when they replaced my fuel tanks I’d hate to have all the back and forth. The alignment kit can’t hurt in this situation. And they for sure wouldn’t be the ones to install an aftermarket part so I will leave it in the hands of a specialty suspension shop.

Are new bolts necessary? If I choose to lower it would it be worth seeing if they could get the cradle to align without the kit? I believe that’s what are you trying to say.

 

[John S]

The bolts are not torque-to-yield so they are probable fine to re-use with blue locktite. However, I don't trust dealerships to touch any of my cars and I don't know if they did any damage with overzealous impact gun use? Good move having a trusted shop intervene, I pay a premium for a reputable setting my street/track alignments and it's worth every penny.

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

The bolts are not torque-to-yield so they are probable fine to re-use with blue locktite. However, I don't trust dealerships to touch any of my cars and I don't know if they did any damage with overzealous impact gun use? Good move having a trusted shop intervene, I pay a premium for a reputable setting my street/track alignments and it's worth every penny.

Wonder what that part number is for new bolts? Would it be worth seeing if the shop could get the cradle to align without no help from the kit?

 

[Neggytive]

Wonder what that part number is for new bolts? Would it be worth seeing if the shop could get the cradle to align without no help from the kit?

they are going to put it on an alignment rack with the heads on the wheels, loosen the cradle, shove and pry it back into position so it aligns with the front end which we are assuming is going to be good, they will look at the thrust angle and when it is where they think it is supposed to be they will tighten up the bolts and perform a full four wheel alignment.

 

[Neggytive]

the rear suspension parts diagrams are here including all hardware:

https://ford.oempartsonline.com/v-2...mium--5-0l-v8-gas/suspension--rear-suspension

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

they are going to put it on an alignment rack with the heads on the wheels, loosen the cradle, shove and pry it back into position so it aligns with the front end which we are assuming is going to be good, they will look at the thrust angle and when it is where they think it is supposed to be they will tighten up the bolts and perform a full four wheel alignment.

So this leads me back to my question I guess the alignment kit would still be worth it? Thanks for those part numbers

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