How long do you think the S650 will stay in production?

[DeluxeStang]

Please explain what you mean by this.

Like I've met car enthusiasts who think the previous gen GT 350 with the voodoo 5.2 was engineered by Shelby out of Las Vegas, and I tell them how Shelby actually had basically nothing to do with it and that car was created entirely by Ford engineers.

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[MaddNomad]

Like I've met car enthusiasts who think the previous gen GT 350 with the voodoo 5.2 was engineered by Shelby out of Las Vegas, and I tell them how Shelby actually had basically nothing to do with it and that car was created entirely by Ford engineers.

Yeah, all the “Shelby” cars after the Ford/Shelby reunion could’ve easily been Cobras or Bosses essentially.

I could see why Ford went in with the Shelby names though, it was historically the first SVT/FP group for them. Things are just too different now (and like you said a big mess with how they’re running things in Vegas).

 

[MustangMitch69]

Yeah, all the “Shelby” cars after the Ford/Shelby reunion could’ve easily been Cobras or Bosses essentially.

I could see why Ford went in with the Shelby names though, it was historically the first SVT/FP group for them. Things are just too different now (and like you said a big mess with how they’re running things in Vegas).

I saw a video on YouTube a couple months ago with a manager at Shelby American right around the time they debuted the S650 Super Snake, and he made a comment that Ford was making it really difficult for them to keep improving upon the mustang, not intentionally, but because they were doing such a good job.

The base Mustang already comes with about 500hp and a 12:1 compression ratio, which is already overkill for daily driving for most people. So what else is there for Shelby to do, other than add power, reduce weight, and improve some aesthetics?

In one of Carroll Shelby's last interviews he said his favorite thing to drive in Texas was his Cobra with a 289 which only made about 300 horsepower.

When he ran his shop, he was doing work for all kinds of companies, as a business, and that didn't mean he wanted a race car as his daily driver. He didn't just work with Ford, even though so many people associate his name with mustangs. He also worked with Chrysler, on the Viper, AC Cars in the UK, and drove an Aston Martin in the 24 hour Le Mans. He wasn't loyal to Ford by any means, they just provided some good business opportunities for his company. He didn't have any interest in mass producing anything, and he only wanted to make a hundred of the Shelby Cobras.

I don't know the business angle of Shelby American, such as how they make money and how much they need to keep the lights on, but if I were them I'd really look into diversifying if they haven't already. Carroll Shelby was always working on multiple opportunities at a time, not just an exclusive partnership with Ford.

I really like what AC Cars is doing with their GT Roadster, using a lightweight chassis in the style of the Shelby Cobras but adding modern features and dropping a coyote into it.

I don't really understand the "more horsepower" thing in Detroit with all the old-school performance guys, now in their fancy management positions, still trying to one-up each other with more and more horsepower. If it weren't for those egos, they probably could have stopped with a smaller V8 and just modernized it for efficiency without also trying to maximize horsepower, and the cars with V8's would still sound and perform great for 99% of people.

Jokes on them though with EV's now cranking out more horsepower and also making more sales. Not that I'm interested in buying one, but if I were in management at a manufacturer in Detroit, I would have stopped trying to compete with my neighbors years ago, and focused more on the bigger picture. Keep making the mustang with a V8, of course, it's a beautiful and amazing car, but "more" at this point is just going to increase the speed at which idiots can wrap themselves around trees.

 

[Zig]

EV's now cranking out more horsepower

nope, ev’s lose more hp the longer it’s used.

 

[Bikeman315]

nope, ev’s lose more hp the longer it’s used.

Yes, batteries lose their ability to charge fully over time, just like a cellphone. But for the time they are charged they produce the same power. But this is a totally different conversation. Let’s just be grateful our S650 still has a V8.

 

[Zig]

Yes, batteries lose their ability to charge fully over time, just like a cellphone. But for the time they are charged they produce the same power. But this is a totally different conversation. Let’s just be grateful our S650 still has a V8.

Just something about gears that add to the experience. The feeling of ever increasing momentum, the excitement of thunder combined with the manual engagement of gears creates that feeling of unity with the machine, a heartbeat of thunder and the sound of fury, Mustang ICE.

 

[Bikeman315]

The whole reason the Dark Horse is called a Dark Horse and not a Mach 1 is because of the Mach-e. And yes, everyone saw that coming. And we all know more electric mustang variants are coming too. And to say history is not a good predictor is just a silly statement that people who dont know history say.

The Mach E was originally supposed to be called the Mach 1. There was major backlash over this and the Mach E was born. The special edition S550 was supposed to be the Boss as it a track (road) focused car. But to appease us enthusiasts is was renamed Mach 1.

The Dark Horse was/is meant to be the flagship S650. Therefore it has a lot of parts from the Mach 1. Where else was Ford going to get these parts from.

Now, we presume, there is going to be a S650 “special edition”. We know that whatever they name it will not be a “GT” anything. What it will be is total conjecture at this point as no one really knows. But we are hopeful it will be the best production Mustang ever.

 

[MustangMitch69]

Just something about gears that add to the experience. The feeling of ever increasing momentum, the excitement of thunder combined with the manual engagement of gears creates that feeling of unity with the machine, a heartbeat of thunder and the sound of fury, Mustang ICE.

I get the EV argument for fuel efficiency, but most people couldn't tell you how much they've ever spent on gas per year anyway. And nobody has ever returned a car for not getting good enough gas mileage. Especially not the hybrid people who don't realize the difference between what they spend on gas for those and a full ICE engine is only about $500 or less per year. Meanwhile they're the first to line up for a new $1,000 iPhone every year that does the same exact thing as last year's model.

If life were a video game, nobody would be choosing to drive an EV over a car with a V8.

Smiles per gallon > miles per gallon.

Finally, this is all anyone needs to see to make the right choice:

 

[AZ_Ryan]

It's kinda confusing, but you have the Shelby company that Carroll founded that made things like the cobra and original gt 350 back in the 60s. That company today operates out of Las Vegas, and makes aftermarket performance mustangs like the super snake. They're basically a tuning shop that buys mustangs from Ford, and then slaps someone else's supercharger and suspension kit on it, and charge over 100k.

The really impressive Shelby models we got during the s550 generation with the 5.2 flatplane gt 350, and the supercharged 5.2 gt 500 were engineered and designed entirely by Ford, and Ford performance, the company Shelby had nothing to do with their creation aside from agreeing to license their branding to ford.

Whereas things like the s650 gt 350 which is just a supercharged 5.0 kit, that's coming from Shelby and not from Ford, it's an aftermarket thing. I can see why Ford is trying to distance themselves from Shelby branding as it can be pretty confusing. Plus I've seen a lot of people giving credit to Shelby for Ford making things like the s550 gt 350 which was a great car.

I get what your saying. I think if anything, the S550 GT350 and GT500 from Ford where more "traditional Shelbys" than anything Shelby American is making right now.

Of course many hard core Shelby Mustang fans would argue that the real Shelbys stopped being made after 1966, and just became badged up for special editions after that.

 

[MaddNomad]

I saw a video on YouTube a couple months ago with a manager at Shelby American right around the time they debuted the S650 Super Snake, and he made a comment that Ford was making it really difficult for them to keep improving upon the mustang, not intentionally, but because they were doing such a good job.

The base Mustang already comes with about 500hp and a 12:1 compression ratio, which is already overkill for daily driving for most people. So what else is there for Shelby to do, other than add power, reduce weight, and improve some aesthetics?

In one of Carroll Shelby's last interviews he said his favorite thing to drive in Texas was his Cobra with a 289 which only made about 300 horsepower.

It’s understandable to an extent, but Carroll in his final years did pivot the Third party Mustang line into entry level GTs and modifying special edition Mustangs. He kinda figured out where his shop can go while the Ford Performance group got the legacy names.

Now we have GT350 R and SuperSnake being the same car, GT350 is what the old entry level GT-S was but more expensive with less options. Saleen for example, made an entry level Mustang for almost Dark horse prices while having their own suspension. Even RTR has their own suspension and their name doesn’t have the same cache.

but it’s whatever at this point because Shelby American will do whatever they want to do and Ford isn’t using their names anyways from what we know.

 

[MaddNomad]

The Mach E was originally supposed to be called the Mach 1. There was major backlash over this and the Mach E was born. The special edition S550 was supposed to be the Boss as it a track (road) focused car. But to appease us enthusiasts is was renamed Mach 1.

The Dark Horse was/is meant to be the flagship S650. Therefore it has a lot of parts from the Mach 1. Where else was Ford going to get these parts from.

Now, we presume, there is going to be a S650 “special edition”. We know that whatever they name it will not be a “GT” anything. What it will be is total conjecture at this point as no one really knows. But we are hopeful it will be the best production Mustang ever.

Hate sidetracking threads but the whole Mach E debacle is so weird and stupid. Lol.

All the internal struggle with the naming and Farley contradicting himself, is the reason why I can’t take these people seriously when they say “Ford wants to make Mustang into a brand.” Farley wants to make a Scion again.

With Mustang doing well racing, I wouldn’t mind the DH being a staple product, followed by a DH R being the higher spec, then the GTD being the apex. But I know people love legacy names.

 

[Q6543]

The Mach E was not a debacle, it was a smash success as far as corporate is concerned… I see far more Mach Es than normal mustangs on the road.

 

[MaddNomad]

The Mach E was not a debacle, it was a smash success as far as corporate is concerned… I see far more Mach Es than normal mustangs on the road.

When I say debacle what do you think I mean? That the Mach E isn’t good? I’m talking about the video and podcasts where employees working on it and around it didn’t want to name it Mustang, or how Farley said they originally changed the name from just “Mach 1” because of backlash but doubled down and received the same backlash. Lmao.

Mach E on its own isn’t a bad car. All those lease deals and discounts that hit in 24 were great for the car. My neighbor has one.

 

[robvas]

The 5.2 XS crate made 580hp, they could probably hit 600 if they added direct injection etc

 

[DeluxeStang]

I get what your saying. I think if anything, the S550 GT350 and GT500 from Ford where more "traditional Shelbys" than anything Shelby American is making right now.

I've thought this as well in the sense that they're more substantial ground up engineering efforts than what Shelby American is putting out right now.

With all the small startups emerging, I feel like it's a missed opportunity for Shelby to not at least try to create some ground up products like they used to in their peak. Like a new cobra with its own bespoke chassis and body work, a new Ford powered Shelby supercar with the best modern suspension and areo you can find.

It would be expensive, but seeing as people are paying well over 100 grand for the stuff Shelby makes now, I believe there would be an audience for a ground up Shelby performance model.

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