6/1/22 unveil for S650 Mustang or something else?

[DeluxeStang]

Just like LSchicago I also feel the V8 engine is what Mustang is all about over the years. However, there is no question in my mind that the days are numbered for the V8. Sadly given the SUV/CUV/Pickup craze I think sports cars sales numbers over the years are loosing market share. Take a peek at the Detroit News chart cut from 2011 and the sales numbers for last year 2021. The Challenger is now outselling the mustang and it is old school sports car?? What is going on in the market?

Sadly, the challenger is finding success because it appeals to the types of consumers who can't stop raving about the good old days, and who want every appliance to be a throwback to a "better" time. I can't help but think a lot of your challenger buyers are the types who say "Why can't brands just start making designs from the 50s and 60s exactly as they were again". There are some exceptions, but many of them seem to hate progress, and that just rubs me the wrong way when progress has been the driving force behind virtually every iconic car/product ever made. I'm burned out on nostalia, ok, rant over lol.

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[Hack]

Well that certainly isn’t true. I bought my 15’ EB as a daily when I was traveling 75 miles a day for work. I was 63 at the time and could certainly afford a GT. It was a personal choice. Denigrating someone for not buying a V8 is not a good look.

You bought the EB to save money over a V8. You shouldn't feel bad about it. It does seem like you would rather have had a V8, but you had the common sense to buy the EB, since it fit your use case better at the time.

I probably wouldn't buy a Mustang without a V8, unless Ford changed the car dramatically. If the Mustang had a smaller turbo engine, but weighed 3,000 lbs or less I would be interested. But if the Mustang still weighed near as makes no difference 4,000 lbs and it had some buzzy little engine in it - nah.

Just like LSchicago I also feel the V8 engine is what Mustang is all about over the years. However, there is no question in my mind that the days are numbered for the V8. Sadly given the SUV/CUV/Pickup craze I think sports cars sales numbers over the years are loosing market share. Take a peek at the Detroit News chart cut from 2011 and the sales numbers for last year 2021. The Challenger is now outselling the mustang and it is old school sports car?? What is going on in the market?

The engine is the draw for me as well. I started buying newer Mustangs when the Coyote came out. I never liked the 4.6. I think Ford could have done much better with a pushrod 302 and better heads. So I didn't buy any Mustangs with the 4.6 engine. Never owned a single one. I test drove a few and I just didn't like them.

Now, I already own a Mustang with a Coyote V8. I'd love a newer Mustang, but it has to be better than what I have. I also will need to feel like I'm getting a good deal. I don't like to feel like I'm over paying or not getting a good value for the money. If the next gen Mustang costs $50K+ and the engine is another Coyote with only minor changes - sorry no thanks.

I don't believe that the low sales numbers are due to Ford not being able to make enough Mustangs. Every time I look online there are lots of brand new Mustangs available in the area.

Why is the Challenger doing well? The Challenger is great looking and has big c.i. engines available. The 2018+ Mustang styling (other than Mach 1) is okay but not great. The droopy hood makes the car look sleepy. If I didn't love the road course I would have purchased a Challenger instead of a Mustang when I was looking for a new car in 2014 when the S550 came out and Mustang prices increased. The Challenger is a lot more comfortable for normal street driving.

If I ever decide to stop going to the track I might switch over - even if it's a used/used trade because Dodge doesn't make the V8 Challenger anymore.

 

[Marty1000]

I don't believe that the low sales numbers are due to Ford not being able to make enough Mustangs. Every time I look online there are lots of brand new Mustangs available in the area.

Why is the Challenger doing well? The Challenger is great looking and has big c.i. engines available. The 2018+ Mustang styling (other than Mach 1) is okay but not great. The droopy hood makes the car look sleepy. If I didn't love the road course I would have purchased a Challenger instead of a Mustang when I was looking for a new car in 2014 when the S550 came out and Mustang prices increased. The Challenger is a lot more comfortable for normal street driving.

If I ever decide to stop going to the track I might switch over - even if it's a used/used trade because Dodge doesn't make the V8 Challenger anymore.

I would guess that the material and chip shortage impacts not just Ford but the other auto manufacturers as well. I agree that the 2021-2022 droopy hood is not a great looking front end as compared to say the GT350 or the Mach1. I loved the 2016 hood and front end design that I had on my 16-MustangV6. At the time I did not have the means to move up to the 2016 GT-Premiun V8 model. After I sold my 2016 I started saving for the Mach 1, but now I am priced out due to supply/demand and dealer greed. I wanted a Mach1 with the Cyber Orange color, but what is available in my area is the Gray, white and black color cars. Now I am thinking of jumping ship to the 2022 Challenger. It is larger, heavier (old school design), but has more room, the Mango Orange color looks great and you can have V8 engine a sunroof and the 6-speed tranny is a TREMEC and the price is much lower compare to the Mach 1....and there are some on dealers lots around the country for sale. The other option is used 2021 Mach 1 after the 2024 Mustang comes out next year that will likely be at much higher price point, because of inflation, increased labor and material costs and dealer greed.

 

[shogun32]

There are some exceptions, but many of them seem to hate progress, and that just rubs me the wrong way when progress has been the driving force behind virtually every iconic car/product ever made. I'm burned out on nostalia

because 'modern progress' means designs that look like SHIT. Not to say bring back the K-car and square-topia of the 80's either but some of the old cars looked GOOD or RIGHT. Modern cars look like ass for the most part. Even the Italians are getting 'cute' and losing their touch.

The Charger/Challenger shape just resonates with people. The underpinnings could stand a nice leap forward but it still works well enough that it's sins can be forgiven. I'd gladly buy a Charger if it came in stick, and I've been ogling Challengers for the past 3 years and almost pulled the trigger a couple times. You couldn't GIVE ME the new Celica and the C8 is a tough sell. Put the C7-derived shape on the C8 and put an admittedly 'fake' H-pattern shifter on that DCT and I would buy.

 

[Strokerswild]

I've been really tempted lately to order up a Challenger R/T Scat Pack widebody, because nobody's going to make a car like that again. Ever. And even though the car industry is turned upside down, I can get one well under list and have it before the snow flies.

F8 green, tan/black leather, shaker, and the bumblebee stripe around the butt will do it for me.

 

[Tonystark]

2.3 is for the younger crowd who can't afford a GT, or for the secretary types who wouldn't know what to do with the power. GT fills the power hungry group, and gives a nice platform to start with. A V6 EB would be like the awkward middle child.

Age, sex and money, for the majority, do not play a role in choosing a 4T over a GT. I am neither young, nor poor and have no problem with power (my past cars will say that). i could rather easily afford a GT; I even looked at the GT 350, but the Turbo did it for me. as well as two other people I know like me. Plenty of speed for everyday driving and it even looks the same as a GT.

 

[IceGamer]

Age, sex and money, for the majority, do not play a role in choosing a 4T over a GT. I am neither young, nor poor and have no problem with power (my past cars will say that). i could rather easily afford a GT; I even looked at the GT 350, but the Turbo did it for me. as well as two other people I know like me. Plenty of speed for everyday driving and it even looks the same as a GT.

I think that is plain wrong. Money is always the driving factor unless you have all the money in the world. But as long as someone cannot afford to burn a Bugatti money is an issue.

The GT is faster, sounds better and is way more iconic. It is however, more expensive in almost every regard. There is simply not a single good argument to not buy the GT. If you looked at a GT and ended up with a 4T then money was the only reason you did so.
There is no shame in saving money through fuel economy, lower insurances and so on but at the end of the day people buy the four banger because it's cheaper.
People even buy Mustangs/Fords because they are cheaper ;)

 

[shogun32]

There is simply not a single good argument to not buy the GT.

sigh, yet another GT bigot with blinders on.

Don't get me wrong, the GT is nice, but plenty of us are sufficiently enlightened enough to choose Turbo4. I've even switched off between the I4 and the V8 even within the same day. The v6 had it's own charisma but lost out by virtue of the other motors being more rev-happy.

 

[DeluxeStang]

because 'modern progress' means designs that look like SHIT. Not to say bring back the K-car and square-topia of the 80's either but some of the old cars looked GOOD or RIGHT. Modern cars look like ass for the most part. Even the Italians are getting 'cute' and losing their touch.

The Charger/Challenger shape just resonates with people. The underpinnings could stand a nice leap forward but it still works well enough that it's sins can be forgiven. I'd gladly buy a Charger if it came in stick, and I've been ogling Challengers for the past 3 years and almost pulled the trigger a couple times. You couldn't GIVE ME the new Celica and the C8 is a tough sell. Put the C7-derived shape on the C8 and put an admittedly 'fake' H-pattern shifter on that DCT and I would buy.

As an aspiring designer, I think we're actually living in a golden age of car design. There are some ugly cars for sure, but that can be said about every era. Car design is better now than it's been for at least 45-50 years. Ford design is arguably better than it's ever been. The only decades that give current designs a run for their money are the 50s and 60s. Even then, most 50s American cars look the same to me in a lot of ways. I find a lot of 50s cars to be beautiful from the side, and the rear, but hideous from the front. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like designers had a hard time back then making attractive front ends. Anything before the 50s wasn't really great either, save for the outstanding coachbuilt cars mostly produced in the 20s and 30s which were rolling art. But your average car prior to the 50s was often still trying to cling to the utilitarian and basic roots of the car. I've never understood why people liked your average 30s-40s car designs. With their awkward stances, hunchback like rooflines, and bulbous protrusions, those designs never looked good to me.

 

[Vhozite]

Regarding the Ecoboost vs GT debate…I don’t want a Mustang that isn’t a V8. There isn’t anything wrong with the EB, but if I’m getting a 4 cylinder I would rather get something smaller and lighter than a Mustang. Something that was built from the ground up to be a 4 cylinder instead of something that got that engine as an afterthought if that makes sense. It’s the same reason I’d go Nissan or BMW if I was getting a 6 cylinder.

I’m 26 and the Mustang has been my attainable dream car since I was 10. But I just got my career really started last year and I honestly I just can’t afford a V8 stang just yet. More than I need to be spending OTD, and I drive 60 miles a day for work. I can swing an EB, but with the last paragraph in mind I ordered a new Subaru BRZ instead. Obviously not as fast, but much smaller and lighter while still cool and fun.

Just giving my 2 cents. The dream will have to wait for now.

 

[Bikeman315]

sigh, yet another GT bigot with blinders on.

Don't get me wrong, the GT is nice, but plenty of us are sufficiently enlightened enough to choose Turbo4. I've even switched off between the I4 and the V8 even within the same day. The v6 had it's own charisma but lost out by virtue of the other motors being more rev-happy.

Matt, keep in mind that @IceGamer is from the other side of the pond. They see things differently. We grew up on V8's. Our overseas brothers and sisters grew up on small 4 and 6 bangers.

The good news is that on the S650 we will still have the choice. Take your pick and enjoy whatever you get.

 

[Bikeman315]

Regarding the Ecoboost vs GT debate…I don’t want a Mustang that isn’t a V8. There isn’t anything wrong with the EB, but if I’m getting a 4 cylinder I would rather get something smaller and lighter than a Mustang. Something that was built from the ground up to be a 4 cylinder instead of something that got that engine as an afterthought if that makes sense. It’s the same reason I’d go Nissan or BMW if I was getting a 6 cylinder.

I’m 26 and the Mustang has been my attainable dream car since I was 10. But I just got my career really started last year and I honestly I just can’t afford a V8 stang just yet. More than I need to be spending OTD, and I drive 60 miles a day for work. I can swing an EB, but with the last paragraph in mind I ordered a new Subaru BRZ instead. Obviously not as fast, but much smaller and lighter while still cool and fun.

Just giving my 2 cents. The dream will have to wait for now.

Just do not wait too long, especially if you want to buy new. The S650 will, most likely, be your last shot at a NA V8.

 

[shogun32]

nd I drive 60 miles a day for work. I can swing an EB, but with the last paragraph in mind I ordered a new Subaru BRZ instead

you're still out 35-37grand, no? Lots of EB under that range...

 

[Tonystark]

I think that is plain wrong. Money is always the driving factor unless you have all the money in the world. But as long as someone cannot afford to burn a Bugatti money is an issue.

The GT is faster, sounds better and is way more iconic. It is however, more expensive in almost every regard. There is simply not a single good argument to not buy the GT. If you looked at a GT and ended up with a 4T then money was the only reason you did so.
There is no shame in saving money through fuel economy, lower insurances and so on but at the end of the day people buy the four banger because it's cheaper.
People even buy Mustangs/Fords because they are cheaper ;)

'Plain wrong' is, well ... plain wrong. I think most people buy what they want (within reason ... Bugatti?) ... at least people I know. I purchased the 4T because I don't need 'sound' like some do for whatever reason (I prefer the quite), nor do I need extra speed, the 4T has more than enough and It is faster than the initial retro GTs from earlier this century, which 'make a lot of sound'. The mustang in general is Iconic ... all of them equally IMO. As I said earlier, 2 others I know who did the same as me for the same reasons could easily afford the GT, they just did not want or need it for the same reasons you noted above. The 4T has the mustang look and 'cool factor', without all the craziness. The much better mpg is just icing on the cake, which I am enjoying these days.

 

[Hack]

sigh, yet another GT bigot with blinders on.

Don't get me wrong, the GT is nice, but plenty of us are sufficiently enlightened enough to choose Turbo4. I've even switched off between the I4 and the V8 even within the same day. The v6 had it's own charisma but lost out by virtue of the other motors being more rev-happy.

ECO boost more rev-happy? Meaning it doesn't rev as well? I owned a V6 Mustang at one time and I did like it, but the GT is better.

Regarding the Ecoboost vs GT debate…I don’t want a Mustang that isn’t a V8. There isn’t anything wrong with the EB, but if I’m getting a 4 cylinder I would rather get something smaller and lighter than a Mustang. Something that was built from the ground up to be a 4 cylinder instead of something that got that engine as an afterthought if that makes sense. It’s the same reason I’d go Nissan or BMW if I was getting a 6 cylinder.

I’m 26 and the Mustang has been my attainable dream car since I was 10. But I just got my career really started last year and I honestly I just can’t afford a V8 stang just yet. More than I need to be spending OTD, and I drive 60 miles a day for work. I can swing an EB, but with the last paragraph in mind I ordered a new Subaru BRZ instead. Obviously not as fast, but much smaller and lighter while still cool and fun.

Just giving my 2 cents. The dream will have to wait for now.

You will like the BRZ. I bought a GR86 this year. It's a lot of fun.

you're still out 35-37grand, no? Lots of EB under that range...

Less than 30 grand for the base car. And remember it weighs 1,000 lbs less than a Mustang. So it's a lot more sporty. The size of the BRZ/GR86 goes a lot better with a small engine. Yes you can get a base EB for less money, but if you add any options...

I did a search for a new EB Mustang near me and they are all over 40K.

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