Styling? Whats happening?

[Hack]

The smooth top half of the side, the side marker lights, the upward slope of the quarter window, no lip on the trunk and the center hood vent. But I have no issues with any of those things ... phew, I am out of breath.

There's a body line in the upper third of the S650 side. It goes through the door handle. Is the body line what you mean by smooth? Both the S550 and S650 have that body line through the door handle, but in the Camaro the line is lower and more subtle. I think the S650 is more like the S550 than like the Camaro in the top half of the sides.

Side marker lights - yes I agree the S650 side marker lights are more like the Camaro.

I give you the side windows as well.

The S650 has a lip on the trunk as far as I can tell. It's subtle, but it's subtle on the S550 as well.

Center hood vent is in S550s as well as Camaro. I think the new vents look similar to the GT500 vents. And given that the vent is stuck on a Mustang style hood, I don't agree.

So, I think your "many" similarities count up to two legitimate similarities.

I don't see it as nearly enough to say the S650 looks like a Camaro. To me it looks a lot more like a Mustang than a Camaro.

Sponsored

 

[Tonystark]

There's a body line in the upper third of the S650 side. It goes through the door handle. Is the body line what you mean by smooth? Both the S550 and S650 have that body line through the door handle, but in the Camaro the line is lower and more subtle. I think the S650 is more like the S550 than like the Camaro in the top half of the sides.

Side marker lights - yes I agree the S650 side marker lights are more like the Camaro.

I give you the side windows as well.

The S650 has a lip on the trunk as far as I can tell. It's subtle, but it's subtle on the S550 as well.

Center hood vent is in S550s as well as Camaro. I think the new vents look similar to the GT500 vents. And given that the vent is stuck on a Mustang style hood, I don't agree.

So, I think your "many" similarities count up to two legitimate similarities.

I don't see it as nearly enough to say the S650 looks like a Camaro. To me it looks a lot more like a Mustang than a Camaro.

I don't think it looks like a Camaro, just that it has some things in common, which, again, is a good thing, IMO.

 

[DeluxeStang]

There's a body line in the upper third of the S650 side. It goes through the door handle. Is the body line what you mean by smooth? Both the S550 and S650 have that body line through the door handle, but in the Camaro the line is lower and more subtle. I think the S650 is more like the S550 than like the Camaro in the top half of the sides.

Side marker lights - yes I agree the S650 side marker lights are more like the Camaro.

I give you the side windows as well.

The S650 has a lip on the trunk as far as I can tell. It's subtle, but it's subtle on the S550 as well.

Center hood vent is in S550s as well as Camaro. I think the new vents look similar to the GT500 vents. And given that the vent is stuck on a Mustang style hood, I don't agree.

So, I think your "many" similarities count up to two legitimate similarities.

I don't see it as nearly enough to say the S650 looks like a Camaro. To me it looks a lot more like a Mustang than a Camaro.

Agreed, the only similarities between the Camaro and the mustang cone as a product of them both being muscle cars, and by extension, having design characteristics attributed to sporty designs. Things like long hoods/short decks, blunt front ends, and flared fenders. Could ford remove all these things from the mustang to avoid the "looks like a Camaro" comments? Yes, but then it would like like a Camry with basic proportions and an ass flatter than Ronald Reagan's. In other words, it would look terrible.

 

[GT 550]

So, I think your "many" similarities count up to two legitimate similarities.

You may be taking this too literally. It's not a right/wrong thing. Some just see the similarities differently but you see 2 so...

I don't see it as nearly enough to say the S650 looks like a Camaro.

He didn't say that so you agree

Things like long hoods/short decks, blunt front ends, and flared fenders. Could ford remove all these things from the mustang to avoid the "looks like a Camaro" comments? Yes, but then it would like like a Camry with basic proportions and an ass flatter than Ronald Reagan's. In other words, it would look terrible.

Surely Ford deserves more credit. Here's one: short hood, pointy front end, unflared fenders (not to be confused with wheel arches), basic proportions, and a 'flat ass' (not familiar enough with RR to make a comparison).

Terrible. Must be a Camry.

 

[Hack]

It would not ... exactly, however, I like the Gen 6 Camaro and almost got one. The fact that it has many similarities with the Gen 6 Camaro is a plus in my book for the s650.

It has many similarities. When asked what the similarities are..

The smooth top half of the side, the side marker lights, the upward slope of the quarter window, no lip on the trunk and the center hood vent. But I have no issues with any of those things ... phew, I am out of breath.

..every similarity is about what the S650 looks like. There is nothing in the list except appearance items.

I don't think it looks like a Camaro, just that it has some things in common, which, again, is a good thing, IMO.

Mustang and Camaro have always had things in common ever since GM copied the original.

You may be taking this too literally. It's not a right/wrong thing. Some just see the similarities differently but you see 2 so...
He didn't say that so you agree

He didn't say it word for word, but yes he did say it. And I disagree. No big deal, but we have a difference of opinion.

Ford knows better than to design/style the Mustang like a vehicle that just failed due to poor design. Definitely the performance of the Camaro was competitive enough. It was just poor design choices that caused sales to fail.

 

[Tonystark]

He didn't say it word for word, but yes he did say it. And I disagree. No big deal, but we have a difference of opinion.

Ford knows better than to design/style the Mustang like a vehicle that just failed due to poor design. Definitely the performance of the Camaro was competitive enough. It was just poor design choices that caused sales to fail.

Seems like it is a big deal to you, but not to me. Let's agree to agree .

Marketing-wise, IMO, Ford does know better, that is why they applied those similarities so as to attract Camaro owners (and Mustang) who will be looking at newer cars down the road.

 

[Grettman]

I have a 2020 S550 GT PP1. If I didn't have that, I would wait for the S650. Do I regret having my car no? I love my car. But I am not compelled enough by the S650 to to sell mine at a loss and switch cars. Given that cars are an expense, I just don't find it practical to change right now. Other than that, yeah, I am a little envious of the S650. I think some folks feel the same way but want to find fault with the new car. Best to wait and see for yourself in person.

 

[MidwayJ]

Based off of what people who've seen the s650 in person have said, the side surfacing of the s650 is actually more muscular.

Strong surfacing is the name of the game right now. But unlike basic character lines, it doesn't translate well into 2D formats. Hence why so many modern designs are disliked when all people have to go on are photos. But once they see it in person, they love it.

I agree it looks more muscular, which is a reversal of the direction the S550 took from the S197. The new Nissan Z has a similar look with no lines or creases on the sides.

Is this really a "modern" design, though, or do these things just go in cycles?

 

[GT 550]

...every similarity is about what the S650 looks like. There is nothing in the list except appearance items.

And...?

Actually, not strange at all on a list of...appearance items. You're saying - albeit not word for word - that the point of the list isn't valid because it only contains appearance items?

I don't see it as nearly enough to say the S650 looks like a Camaro.

I don't think it looks like a Camaro, just that it has some things in common, which, again, is a good thing, IMO.

He didn't say it word for word, but yes he did say it.

I may be missing something but where was that? Noting of course the explicit statement to the opposite. Similar and same mean different things, right?

 

[OppoLock]

I agree it looks more muscular, which is a reversal of the direction the S550 took from the S197. The new Nissan Z has a similar look with no lines or creases on the sides.

Is this really a "modern" design, though, or do these things just go in cycles?

Definitely levels to this. An absence of hard body lines is not a throwback to 90s soap bars.

Conceptual design has been refined between proportions and graphics. Manufacturing methods allow OEMs to create the illusion of hard edges. Computer-aided modeling has refined joined body surfaces so that reflections work seamlessly without any fuss or noise.

Today’s cars are a collection of 3D objects that intersect with a focus on proportions. In the early 2000s, there was a huge shift in manufacturing methods that started a trend of taking traditional lines and scalloping them to create contrast coupled with a big focus on defining body surfaces with chamfers and bevels. Since the late 10s, deeply surfaced traditional lines and a lot of the usual chamfers have given way to rounded but “tense” modeling and less traditional design elements in general. We see this most in EV cars that are trying to be futuristic above all else.

The S650 does a great job of taking current trends and overlaying them on the S550 platform. When you look at the car in the perspective of current trends, it’s really impressive imo.

 

[Zcarmenb28]

The smooth top half of the side, the side marker lights, the upward slope of the quarter window, no lip on the trunk and the center hood vent. But I have no issues with any of those things ... phew, I am out of breath.

Yes, I agree with these, and I'd add: the subtle lower door line that slopes up and isn't present on the S550, the rear sheetmetal cutout for the rear lights (in side profile view only), the rear hips (although those were similar on the S550 as well), the upward curve of the middle line on the dark horse is very similar to the LT1 Camaro at certain angles, and the single horizontal top line of the front end.

 

[DeluxeStang]

You may be taking this too literally. It's not a right/wrong thing. Some just see the similarities differently but you see 2 so...



He didn't say that so you agree



Surely Ford deserves more credit. Here's one: short hood, pointy front end, unflared fenders (not to be confused with wheel arches), basic proportions, and a 'flat ass' (not familiar enough with RR to make a comparison).

Terrible. Must be a Camry.

Well if Ford made a mid engine mustang, which seems possible, people would still complain. They would say it's too similar to other designs and too expensive. It would just be trading one set of design characteristics for another.

A short hood, mid engine proportions, a low nose/hood. All of which are staples of attractive mid-engine car design. People would just go from saying it looks like a Camaro to saying it looks like a Corvette, or a Ferrari.

My point is like creating a book/film, virtually everything in the car design world has been attempted before. So it's very unlikely that you'll see a completely original design, just like it's been decades since we've seen a truly original film. All you can do is remix existing elements.

 

[DeluxeStang]

I agree it looks more muscular, which is a reversal of the direction the S550 took from the S197. The new Nissan Z has a similar look with no lines or creases on the sides.

Is this really a "modern" design, though, or do these things just go in cycles?

Nothing on 90s cars was defined, not the overall shape, not the character lines, and not the surfacing. It all felt half assed, like it just came out of the wind tunnel looking that way.

The difference is modern designs like the s650 still have sharply designed profiles, and well placed character lines. Their surfacing is controlled, shaped in such a way that they flow seamlessly from one panel to the next while expertly using light and shadow to create surface tension.

Aside from the move away from harshly defined lines, they really have nothing in common with 90s design which was extremely poorly done.

 

[MidwayJ]

@OppoLock
@DeluxeStang

Perhaps I misunderstood but I thought @DeluxeStang was saying the absence of lines or creases on the sides was, by itself, a more modern look. I agree the overall design of the S650 doesn't necessarily look like a throwback to the 90s.

I do admit I like the look of those Camaros and Firebirds better than the Mustangs of that time.

 

[GT 550]

Nothing on 90s cars was defined, not the overall shape, not the character lines, and not the surfacing. It all felt half assed, like it just came out of the wind tunnel looking that way.

Half assed indeed.

And of course...the Big Mac

Well if Ford made a mid engine mustang, which seems possible, people would still complain.

Give the people what they want and only those in the narrow margins will complain eg compulsive rock throwers and luddites. If it's hot...it's hot. Really good design is rarely very divisive.

My point is like creating a book/film, virtually everything in the car design world has been attempted before.

You're right of course, virtually everything has been attempted and the principles of hood length/overhang/waist height/wheel arch relationship etc have been known by designers for ever. But it's how those principles are applied that makes the magic. Manufacturers can still take the same principles used by Ferrari and Lamborghini etc for decades and apply them to arrive at something that's unique. I give you the 2022 Emira made by the tiny Lotus company.

Ferrari demonstrates mastery of the principles over and over again - albeit not always perfectly - and still managed to outdo themselves last year with the Roma (yep, it's a 4 seater with no photocopier screens on the dash - ok ok not fair let's not go there ):

People would just go from saying it looks like a Camaro to saying it looks like a Corvette, or a Ferrari.

If a Mustang ever actually DID look like a Ferrari I've a suspicion that those of us in the bell curve would be beating a path the the nearest dealer. There may be some lamenting of the loss of shape elements but overall...maybe not so much (see above).

Sponsored