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SO, is the S650 PCM locked or not?

Skye

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Some things to consider with respect to jailbreaking a PCM (I do understand to some I'm stating the obvious.)

Voiding warranties are a given. More importantly is the issue of safety.

Anyone who has a jail-breaked car and later has an accident could be in for all kinds of problems.
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Schwerin

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Yeah, but for me thatā€˜s not really the point.

A PlayStation is one thing but wants to rely on a car that was able to be tuned only after years of extreme effort on the part of dedicated hackers? Just because you can do something doesnā€™t mean itā€™s a good idea. If it takes that much work Iā€™d say thereā€™s a pretty good sign the factory didnā€™t want it to be done. I can only imagine the flood of threads with guys asking for help with some kind of weird problem, and oh by the way my S650 is tuned.
Factory has never wanted cars tuned back to the 60's. Welcome to reality.

Unlocking a PCM has nothing to do with any weird problems that's entirely on the person doing the tuning.
Literally all your worries have been reality since .....well since tuning existed. What's you're point?
 

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Controlling these powertrains is a new electrical architecture, which enabled a host of new features, but it also includes CAN bus authentication and cyber security protocols that will present challenges with regard to aftermarket upgrades.
ā€œMy expectation is the CAN bus authentication and cybersecurity effectively limits or eliminates aftermarket tuners,ā€ Ed Krenz, Ford Mustang Chief Nameplate Engineer, states flatly. ā€œThere are companies that weā€™ve partnered with that have the ability within our software to do their aftermarket tuning, and they can still make those calibrations available. But they really have to be working within the Ford software environment and it canā€™t just exhale our code and inhale new code. That isnā€™t going to work anymore.ā€
 

Schwerin

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Controlling these powertrains is a new electrical architecture, which enabled a host of new features, but it also includes CAN bus authentication and cyber security protocols that will present challenges with regard to aftermarket upgrades.
ā€œMy expectation is the CAN bus authentication and cybersecurity effectively limits or eliminates aftermarket tuners,ā€ Ed Krenz, Ford Mustang Chief Nameplate Engineer, states flatly. ā€œThere are companies that weā€™ve partnered with that have the ability within our software to do their aftermarket tuning, and they can still make those calibrations available. But they really have to be working within the Ford software environment and it canā€™t just exhale our code and inhale new code. That isnā€™t going to work anymore.ā€
Yes, but nothing is unhackable. Saying something is is just ignorance. Likely the price to aquire multiple vehicles AND enough electrical/security understanding will be a much higher hurdle than just "can it be done".

The whole reason Cobb Tuning exists is because it's owner hacked what Subaru called an unhackable PCM.
 

kz

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It's pretty simple - corporate play to make more money. Why make it available for everyone to tune while you can sell access to tuning to those tuners that want to pay (that's what partnered with means).

It has nothing to do with Ford not wanting people to mess with their engines - they could care less about that, especially that this engine is basically the same as gen 3.
 


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young at heart

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Factory has never wanted cars tuned back to the 60's. Welcome to reality.

Unlocking a PCM has nothing to do with any weird problems that's entirely on the person doing the tuning.
Literally all your worries have been reality since .....well since tuning existed. What's you're point?
Geez, I guess I thought my point was self-evident.

Iā€˜ll take another lookā€¦
 

93-Oct Mayne

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I think we can blame the Ecoboost for this.

When the S550 dropped, tuners jumped all over it and popped hundreds of motors with crappy tuning, which then lead people to believe it was not a reliable engine (aka the Ecoboom moniker)
 
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young at heart

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Some things to consider with respect to jailbreaking a PCM (I do understand to some I'm stating the obvious.)

Voiding warranties are a given. More importantly is the issue of safety.

Anyone who has a jail-breaked car and later has an accident could be in for all kinds of problems.
Excellent point.
 

awpe

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Tuned quite some ECUs in the past (edc16, edc17), to my knowledge non of them had been advertised as "locked", it was just checksum algorithm and/or cipher on the data in the ECU storage, and it was always a matter of time when aftermarket was able to keep up with new ECU. However after couple of years as embedded SW developer I can offer multiple implementations for "locked" ECU when it is either can be written only once (so you need new blank chip each time) or require tuner to provide p<>np problem solution.
 
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Schwerin

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Tuned quite some ECUs in the past (edc16, edc17), to my knowledge non of them had been advertised as "locked", it was just checksum algorithm and/or cipher on the data in the ECU storage, and it was always a matter of time when aftermarket was able to keep up with new ECU. However after couple of years as embedded SW developer I can offer multiple implementation for "locked" ECU when it is either can be written only once (so you need new blank chip each time) or require tuner to provide p<>np problem solution.
Yes but for Ford to be able to update it, that means that it has to be re-writeable. Fords NOT gonna pump out whole new PCM's for every update/recall. I also find it unlikely, but possible, that Ford will make tuning companies sell a pre-tuned PCM with their Super/turbocharge kits. If they do then that would mean the END of the intake/tune packages from smaller companies as it would add a few $$$ to the price of those. Say goodby to "mild bolt-on" cars. If they DO provide a flasher then it will make it easier for people to hack as there would need to be a hand shake between the devices that can be used as a stepping stone.
 

MAGS1

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Yes but for Ford to be able to update it, that means that it has to be re-writeable. Fords NOT gonna pump out whole new PCM's for every update/recall. I also find it unlikely, but possible, that Ford will make tuning companies sell a pre-tuned PCM with their Super/turbocharge kits. If they do then that would mean the END of the intake/tune packages from smaller companies as it would add a few $$$ to the price of those. Say goodby to "mild bolt-on" cars. If they DO provide a flasher then it will make it easier for people to hack as there would need to be a hand shake between the devices that can be used as a stepping stone.
I would agree that mild bolt ons will be a thing of the past as it relates to the s650 and Ford wants it that way. Theyā€™ll have setups with Roush, Saleen and Shelby (and Iā€™m sure FP will have some kits as well) and Ford will get a piece of all those sales. So anyone looking for power adders will have to go through them. As for the other tuners, thereā€™s still tons of s550,s197, etc. out there so I think the bigger guys will still be able to survive for a while. Some of the smaller ones probably not so much.
 

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I would agree that mild bolt ons will be a thing of the past as it relates to the s650 and Ford wants it that way. Theyā€™ll have setups with Roush, Saleen and Shelby (and Iā€™m sure FP will have some kits as well) and Ford will get a piece of all those sales. So anyone looking for power adders will have to go through them. As for the other tuners, thereā€™s still tons of s550,s197, etc. out there so I think the bigger guys will still be able to survive for a while. Some of the smaller ones probably not so much.
If I remember Lund stopped doing anything pre 2005 so now his whole market is stuck with just 15~yrs of range that will slowly dwindle. Companies like MRT, ironically founded by a ex-Ford New Edge Bullitt/Mach1 engineer, will go away, they do just intakes and exhausts.

I suspect anyone that wants to tune will move to a Nissan Z, Supra, or the last of the Camaro/Challenger/Chargers or stick to the S550.

Sadly with how tech advances this was a long time coming but I always figured that Ford/GM would only implement it on their Hybrid/EV cars, and let their true performance cars stay how they are till they also moved to EV/Hybrid drivetrains. IE: you can tune the EB, and V8 Mustang but can't tune an upcoming hybrid drivetrain. That was always the logical way to phase stuff out to me while not creating blowback. But how Fords been doing stuff lately, im guessing they just dont care. THey clearly dont care about getting my business.
 

MAGS1

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If I remember Lund stopped doing anything pre 2005 so now his whole market is stuck with just 15~yrs of range that will slowly dwindle. Companies like MRT, ironically founded by a ex-Ford New Edge Bullitt/Mach1 engineer, will go away, they do just intakes and exhausts.

I suspect anyone that wants to tune will move to a Nissan Z, Supra, or the last of the Camaro/Challenger/Chargers or stick to the S550.

Sadly with how tech advances this was a long time coming but I always figured that Ford/GM would only implement it on their Hybrid/EV cars, and let their true performance cars stay how they are till they also moved to EV/Hybrid drivetrains. IE: you can tune the EB, and V8 Mustang but can't tune an upcoming hybrid drivetrain. That was always the logical way to phase stuff out to me while not creating blowback. But how Fords been doing stuff lately, im guessing they just dont care. THey clearly dont care about getting my business.
They want your business, they just want ALL of it now including aftermarket. Sucks for those guys that built their business around customization for enthusiasts.
 

awpe

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Yes but for Ford to be able to update it, that means that it has to be re-writeable. Fords NOT gonna pump out whole new PCM's for every update/recall. I also find it unlikely, but possible, that Ford will make tuning companies sell a pre-tuned PCM with their Super/turbocharge kits. If they do then that would mean the END of the intake/tune packages from smaller companies as it would add a few $$$ to the price of those. Say goodby to "mild bolt-on" cars. If they DO provide a flasher then it will make it easier for people to hack as there would need to be a hand shake between the devices that can be used as a stepping stone.
That p<>np joke was about ford using ECU with chip implementing some sort of HSM (hardware security module) with encryption for firmware then they will provide you with already encrypted data that can be decrypted only by key locked inside hardware, and all new firmware updates will be encrypted in their "lab" disconnected from outside world thus no one will ever get key for encryption unless he gets inside this "lab". Tuning companies that are "partnering" with ford will get some software and mule ecu for tuning and filling up tables with ECU maps which are sent to ford so ford can "brew" new firmware for customer vehicle. More imolementations are possible thus full locking is clearly possible... šŸ˜­
 
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Schwerin

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That p<>np joke was about ford using ECU with chip implementing some sort of HSM (hardware security module) with encryption for firmware then they will provide you with already encrypted data that can be decrypted only by key locked inside hardware, and all new firmware updates will be encrypted in their "lab" disconnected from outside world thus no one will ever get key for encryption unless he gets inside this "lab". Tuning companies that are "partnering" with ford will get some software and mule ecu for tuning and filling up tables with ECU maps which are sent to ford so ford can "brew" new firmware for customer vehicle. More imolementations are possible thus full locking is clearly possible... šŸ˜­
Yes but my point is that if a device CAN be rewritten it means there is a key as a handshake has to happen. It just depends on HOW they implement that handshake, and if anyone trying to crack it can repeat the shake over and over while they work on cracking it. I'd be amazed if there is anyone really in the tuning market that has the money and know how to spend time trying to crack it though. Thats really the issue. If someone could sit watching the handshake over and over trying to capture the data, I'm sure they would get a crack for it, but like I said... no one has the time, know how AND money while also caring enough to do it. It's almost more a security by obscurity.

Remember Dodge PCM's are also locked and while it took a couple years, they are cracked.
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