Is it me or is this car tail happy when making fast turns

[LouG]

--> Depends on the tires and surface conditions. On some tires or surfaces, the slip angle is dramatic enough that the car is visibly sliding. Thats why if you watch old cars race on bias ply tires, they are all sliding through the corners. Its not as simple as "any oversteer is bad".

--> The tires will absolutely take further accelerator input. If you keep giving the rear more power, you will keep propelling yourself forward. That's just how it works. If you're countersteering correctly, then you should absolutely give the car a little bit of throttle, but not an excessive amount.

--> Squaring the corner is taking the shortest line to optimize the time spent accelerating. You're essentially making the track, or section of road before and after the corner, as straight as possible. Trail braking and/or slow-in fast-out are simply methods to achieve the end goal of squaring the corner, or making the track as straight as possible.

You haven't comprehended what I wrote.
Yaw or rotation is prior to actual loss of traction or sliding. It's an increase in slip angle at the rear tyres, it's not loss of traction.
I've driven a lot on cross ply tyres, they slide even with the low power outputs of 50's and 60's cars. It's not a good comparison. I also never said any oversteer is bad, it works well off road and is fun on road
But this drifting style of driving is not the fastest way around a track, or road.
You can accelerate when your car starts to slide on your way to work, I'll pass. It's the way to Youtube stardom.
Your 3rd paragraph is exactly what I said.

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[Junkyard Dog]

I tested out the difference between Sport and Track throttle response on the way home today and it is markedly different! Track has a much smoother application of power needing to get above what I’d estimate is 35-40% before it really starts to pull, whereas sport felt a lot more immediate at what I’d guess was 15-20% input.

I’d say sport is probably better to “feel” the power in normal daily driving conditions, whereas I’m sure track would give you more controllable and measurable power if you’re driving at the limits of the cars grip.

That's what I've been trying to say!

"Feel the power" = marketing

IMO, tuning throttle to make the gas pedal more sensitive is one of the dumbest modern car trends. Having the throttle linearity cranked up to where 20% pedal input = 85% of the torque makes people feel like their car is a rocketship, because you have 80% of the pedal left to play with, but it removes most of the nuisance and ability to modulate the throttle. The remaining 80% of the throttle is just dead space with minimal effect on torque. Its silly, and I wish they would stop, lol.

Its nice that track mode tunes it down a bit, as it should.

Yep, Sport Mode = marketing.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I don't know what squaring the corner is, but a late turn in, late apex is going to give you the fastest exit speed, and that is not the shortest way through the turn. A traditional apex, in the middle, is the shortest way through the turn. That does not, however, provide the highest exit speed.

The late apex gives the straightest line out of the turn, but not the straightest or shortest line through the turn.

The later apex allows more throttle as you leave the apex than the traditional apex, and way more than the early apex, which will end up throwing you off the track ("running out of track") if you try to apply the same amount of throttle leaving the apex.

 

[glenng6]

Thanks... makes more sense.

There is certainly a difference between sport and track mode... I love track mode, sport mode, not so much. It still seems to shift too early (too low RPM), especially in the higher gears/while cruising. The sport mode in my S550 holds all shift points about 1000 RPM higher in all gears as far as I can tell.

I, also, prefer Track mode! The honeymoon between me and the Stang's exhaust still isn't over! Glenn

 

[Junkyard Dog]

In fairness to everybody else - I only use Track Mode for fun. When fun time is over, I put it back in Normal Mode and set the cruise control. This has been my trick to have no tickets in the Dark Horse yet.

 

[LouG]

I don't know what squaring the corner is, but a late turn in, late apex is going to give you the fastest exit speed, and that is not the shortest way through the turn. A traditional apex, in the middle, is the shortest way through the turn. That does not, however, provide the highest exit speed.

The late apex gives the straightest line out of the turn, but not the straightest or shortest line through the turn.

The later apex allows more throttle as you leave the apex than the traditional apex, and way more than the early apex, which will end up throwing you off the track ("running out of track") if you try to apply the same amount of throttle leaving the apex.

Perfect explaination. I picked that up watching MotoGP, they brake and accelerate much harder than they can corner, so you square it off to minimise the time spent at lean.

 

[Dark Sprite]

In fairness to everybody else - I only use Track Mode for fun. When fun time is over, I put it back in Normal Mode and set the cruise control. This has been my trick to have no tickets in the Dark Horse yet.

As a result of reading this thread I've actually been prompted to start fiddling around with different custom modes. It is definitely frustrating that you can't set the magneride separately from the base mode. I was hopping in the car each morning, getting out past the speed bumps and then double pressing "Mode" to get into Sport, but I'm now thinking that's not going to be very helpful for getting to know the car properly (as it's just gimmicky insta-power throttle response, which makes a large portion of the accelerator travel obsolete and doesn't allow micro adjustments).

So I have set a few additional profiles to maintain a more linear throttle response but keeping the comfort of daily driving on the suspension setting - Base: Normal | Steering: Sport | Suspension: Normal | Traction: Normal | Exhaust: Sport (P1)/Track (P2). I think my ideal for daily would be the above but with Traction set to Sport to give the rear end a little bit more freedom and a bit of leeway for me to be able to keep the power on if the back does slip (for whatever reason) without the throttle being cut out early - but the base mode ties throttle response and suspension together.

Is it possible to cycle through Profile modes using steering wheel buttons or do you have to go to the Custom menu in My Mustang to be able to do this (i.e. changing between Profile 1, Profile 2, etc.)? From testing with the Mode button on the steering wheel the only option is to select "Custom" and it will pick the most recently used custom profile.

 

[dusman59]

Custom mode on the wheel only can pick last custom mode used. My Mustang needs to be used to change to another custom mode. No other way that I know of to do it.

 

[smurfslayer]

I picked that up watching MotoGP, they brake and accelerate much harder than they can corner, so you square it off to minimise the time spent at lean.

I think probably the absolute best example of this is the World Superbike series from about '08 - '20

2008	Troy Bayliss​	Ducati 1098 F08​	P	13	6	5	Ducati Xerox Team
2009	Ben Spies​	Yamaha YZF-R1​	P	14	2	1	Yamaha World Superbike Team
2010	Max Biaggi​	Aprilia RSV4 1000​	P	10	2	2	Aprilia Alitalia Racing
2011	Carlos Checa​	Ducati 1098R​	P	15	0	6	Althea Racing
2012	Max Biaggi​	Aprilia RSV4 1000​	P	5	2	4	Aprilia Racing Team
2013	Tom Sykes​	Kawasaki ZX-10R​	P	9	4	5	Kawasaki Racing Team
2014	Sylvain Guintoli​	Aprilia RSV4 1000​	P	5	8	3	Aprilia Racing Team
2015	Jonathan Rea​	Kawasaki ZX-10R​	P	14	7	2	Kawasaki Racing Team
2016	Jonathan Rea​	Kawasaki ZX-10R​	P	9	9	5	Kawasaki Racing Team
2017	Jonathan Rea​	Kawasaki ZX-10RR​	P	16	7	1	Kawasaki Racing Team
2018	Jonathan Rea​	Kawasaki ZX-10RR​	P	17	4	1	Kawasaki Racing Team
2019	Jonathan Rea​	Kawasaki ZX-10RR​	P	17	16	1	Kawasaki Racing Team WorldSBK
2020	Jonathan Rea​	Kawasaki ZX-10RR​	P	11	5	1	Kawasaki Racing Team WorldSBK

in '08 - '11, Kawasaki couldn't get the tires to survive a full race, the Ducati 1098r / 1198 was at the height of its success. In 2012, though Biaggi won, Tom Sykes was runner up and a close 2nd; actually tied on points, but not as many race wins. Biaggi retired and Sykes won in '13. in '14 he was also runner up.

Sykes was a late braking, square the corner rider, making him very difficult to pass, but, it did not play well with the Kawasaki's power delivery and tire life. He was also famous for getting Pole position throughout this era. Johnny Rea joined Kawasaki in '15 as I recall.

Johnny is a 'smooth, flowing, carry speed through the corner rider - the polar opposite of Tom Sykes. Johnny went on to 6 --consecutive-- World Superbike championships, an unparalleled feat. Just to point out that you are able to carry corner speed on a bike - Or in the Mustang with practice. What Johnny illustrated was not squaring off the corner as severely, and carrying more corner speed, set the bike up for an easier transition to upright and full power delivery with traction. What's interesting is that while Johnny was winning more races and championships, Sykes was able to keep winning pole position more often until he left Kawasaki. So the sharp corner squaring rider was making more impressive single lap times, but not able to sustain race pace like that.

 

[Yamazuki]

I think probably the absolute best example of this is the World Superbike series from about '08 - '20
2008

 Troy Bayliss
Ducati 1098 F08
P1365DucatiXerox Team2009

 Ben Spies
Yamaha YZF-R1
P1421Yamaha World Superbike Team2010

 Max Biaggi
Aprilia RSV4 1000
P1022ApriliaAlitalia Racing2011

 Carlos Checa
Ducati 1098R
P1506Althea Racing2012

 Max Biaggi
Aprilia RSV4 1000
P524Aprilia Racing Team2013

 Tom Sykes
Kawasaki ZX-10R
P945Kawasaki Racing Team2014

 Sylvain Guintoli
Aprilia RSV4 1000
P583Aprilia Racing Team2015

 Jonathan Rea
Kawasaki ZX-10R
P1472Kawasaki Racing Team2016

 Jonathan Rea
Kawasaki ZX-10R
P995Kawasaki Racing Team2017

 Jonathan Rea
Kawasaki ZX-10RR
P1671Kawasaki Racing Team2018

 Jonathan Rea
Kawasaki ZX-10RR
P1741Kawasaki Racing Team2019

 Jonathan Rea
Kawasaki ZX-10RR
P17161Kawasaki Racing Team WorldSBK2020

 Jonathan Rea
Kawasaki ZX-10RR
P1151Kawasaki Racing Team WorldSBK

in '08 - '11, Kawasaki couldn't get the tires to survive a full race, the Ducati 1098r / 1198 was at the height of its success. In 2012, though Biaggi won, Tom Sykes was runner up and a close 2nd; actually tied on points, but not as many race wins. Biaggi retired and Sykes won in '13. in '14 he was also runner up.

Sykes was a late braking, square the corner rider, making him very difficult to pass, but, it did not play well with the Kawasaki's power delivery and tire life. He was also famous for getting Pole position throughout this era. Johnny Rea joined Kawasaki in '15 as I recall.

Johnny is a 'smooth, flowing, carry speed through the corner rider - the polar opposite of Tom Sykes. Johnny went on to 6 --consecutive-- World Superbike championships, an unparalleled feat. Just to point out that you are able to carry corner speed on a bike - Or in the Mustang with practice. What Johnny illustrated was not squaring off the corner as severely, and carrying more corner speed, set the bike up for an easier transition to upright and full power delivery with traction. What's interesting is that while Johnny was winning more races and championships, Sykes was able to keep winning pole position more often until he left Kawasaki. So the sharp corner squaring rider was making more impressive single lap times, but not able to sustain race pace like that.

I sure miss watching Rossi riding Yamaha’s!

 

[smurfslayer]

I sure miss watching Rossi riding Yamaha’s!

Jorge Martín winning on a (semi) Privateer Ducati a couple years ago was freakin' awesome. When was the last time a non factory team won the motogp championship?
I hope he's back to form this year.

I hope Yamaha brings more game this year too, it's getting tiring watching the Ducatis now. Not that they're boring, but with Aprilia coming on, if Yamaha can bring more to the fight, it will be more interesting.

 

[Yamazuki]

Jorge Martín winning on a (semi) Privateer Ducati a couple years ago was freakin' awesome. When was the last time a non factory team won the motogp championship?
I hope he's back to form this year.

I hope Yamaha brings more game this year too, it's getting tiring watching the Ducatis now. Not that they're boring, but with Aprilia coming on, if Yamaha can bring more to the fight, it will be more interesting.

Indeed!

 

[AZ_Ryan]

car has 5400 miles on it so the Conti's should be good

Nope, in normal mode

GT 401A I sure hope it has LSD/Posi

My Vette would only do this with the traction control off and hammering it, Porsche never did it, neither Alfa does it but comparing antique Alfa's to a Mustang is not a fair comparison, but both of my Alfa's have been track raced without any issue.

The Vette's traction control would actually cut the throttle if it got sideways under heavy throttle

Normally I drive very conservatively, I'm old and already did the speed thing in cars and on bikes.

I was just surprised with all the electronics in the car that it did not self moderate to some extent especially in "normal " mode

The Mustang has never been a car known for traction on anything but dry pavement, and that is based on my observations having driven them for over 50 years.

Those all Season Contis are garbage. That said, I think driving school is in order before you end up on YouTube as another mustang idiot.

 

[Cz_Ziemniak]

You haven't comprehended what I wrote.

….

Your 3rd paragraph is exactly what.

No

 

[Neggytive]

Those all Season Contis are garbage. That said, I think driving school is in order before you end up on YouTube as another mustang idiot.

Here is the extent of my normal driving,

Take the car on Monday night to go get pizza, maybe use it to run an errand during the week when I can get out of the house without the dog following me out the door into the garage.

Now that I have had 3 instances of spirited driving where the rear end has either broken loose and slid, or I felt what I thought was the car starting to slide while turning at a speed faster than I should have been going, I will adjust my driving and expectations accordingly.

I just thought it was unusual for what should be a current technology car to allow that to happen in normal mode.

As I said before my 94 Vette with a lowly 350HP engine would stop the slide if the traction control was on. With the traction control off it was fun, reminding me of my 71 Buick Riv 455 4bbl TH400 and 12 bolt posi... that car would slide left coming out of a light with some throttle applied to it. My Chevelle's were more straight line tire smoke cars.



I have done driving schools, I have track time at NHIS, Lime Rock and other tracks in the Northeast in my vintage Alfa over the last 40 years of ownership.

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