Does 5.0 coyote performance improve with octane?

[Junkyard Dog]

if the map is altered to allow more timing advance for 100 octane or E85, etc, it will produce more power to a point.

I wonder how much timing can really be advanced over what was set by the factory? The biggest gain I have seen yet (that I find somewhat credible) is approximately 50 horsepower on E85, which is significant. I wonder how many degrees of timing were added to get that number, and I wonder whether it could be duplicated on a hot summer day after driving around and sitting and idling and being stuck in traffic, or 25 minutes into the fourth session of an HPDE/Track Day in July?

I wonder. I do not know the answer. If somebody else does, I would love to hear it.

What is done to the tune to pick up 50 horsepower over the factory tune by switching to E85 and making changes? How many degrees of advanced timing? What else? More fuel, duh, because it is E85, but I do not know what all needs to be done.

Do tuners mess with the camshaft positions on S550 or S650 cars?

Sponsored

 

[drive_55_not]

Again, the factory map allows more timing on higher than 93...

27 degrees timing is all the Stock S650 tune will dial in, whether 100octane, E40, 93 and even 87 will dial up 27.

.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

even 87 will dial up 27.

And then promptly dial it right back out when you give it more than half throttle . . .

 

[Junkyard Dog]

27 degrees timing is all the Stock S650 tune will dial in, whether 100octane, E40, 93 and even 87 will dial up 27.

.

Thanks for sharing the timing, though.

27 degrees

It shows how much more efficient modern engines are. My old Pontiac, back when Pontiacs were a separate engine family, required 34 degrees to run at its best.

 

[Frogdog1]

Thanks for sharing the timing, though.

27 degrees

It shows how much more efficient modern engines are. My old Pontiac, back when Pontiacs were a separate engine family, required 34 degrees to run at its best.

Now, try to imagine if a 427 Ford or Chevy, were built like a Coyote, with DOHC, VVT, electronics, etc. How much HP will that add up to, assuming the block, heads, etc., would take the power?

302 vs 427......

 

[drive_55_not]

And then promptly dial it right back out when you give it more than half throttle . . .

I logged Ethanol Free 87 [ Or as Some People would say, E85 with Zero Ethanol ] back in the Winter, 30degree IAT.

Had knock when I 1st floored it in 4th but it surprisingly cleared up and dialed in 26.9degrees timing and carried that thru 5th.

And No I don't use 87, I just tested it,


As for your question about how much timing can be dialed in on E85.

I'm seeing 31,6. And that's ramped in by 2800rpm.

Hence the reason tooners warn you not to run 'low' ethanol E85 with an aggressive E85 tune. Unless you want new pistons.

.




.

 

[LouG]

I wonder how much timing can really be advanced over what was set by the factory? The biggest gain I have seen yet (that I find somewhat credible) is approximately 50 horsepower on E85, which is significant. I wonder how many degrees of timing were added to get that number, and I wonder whether it could be duplicated on a hot summer day after driving around and sitting and idling and being stuck in traffic, or 25 minutes into the fourth session of an HPDE/Track Day in July?

I wonder. I do not know the answer. If somebody else does, I would love to hear it.

What is done to the tune to pick up 50 horsepower over the factory tune by switching to E85 and making changes? How many degrees of advanced timing? What else? More fuel, duh, because it is E85, but I do not know what all needs to be done.

Do tuners mess with the camshaft positions on S550 or S650 cars?

There's also the tuner who pushes the limits to get good numbers. After all, it's not their car.
I think you have to find one you trust more than your wife.
On second thoughts, compared to number 2 ex, it's anyone.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Now, try to imagine if a 427 Ford or Chevy, were built like a Coyote, with DOHC, VVT, electronics, etc. How much HP will that add up to, assuming the block, heads, etc., would take the power?

302 vs 427......

There have been a lot of developments in other things, too, like cylinder head design.

Our stock 4 valve 5.0 heads flow far more than a dedicated racing head for a 302 back in the 60s.

The same goes for stock LS heads today v. the old muscle car cylinder heads.

 

[Stanzi]

When Ford quotes horsepower numbers they state it is when using 93 octane. There has to be a reason they use 93 octane when measuring and stating HP numbers.

Where do you see that from Ford? I am not see that anywhere on Ford's site...

 

[Frogdog1]

Where do you see that from Ford? I am not see that anywhere on Ford's site...

Keep looking. Ford states it.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

There's also the tuner who pushes the limits to get good numbers. After all, it's not their car.
I think you have to find one you trust more than your wife.
On second thoughts, compared to number 2 ex, it's anyone.

In all seriousness, in this age of social media, not many folks are going to buy from a tuner when the reviews are all like, "Hey, be aware, I downloaded the tune from MadMan Tuning Solutions, and now my crankshaft is in five pieces all over the road!"

Forum user #2 - "Me, too! Except mine is in eight pieces."

Forum user number 3 - "Hey, I thought it was just me! I talked to Madman, and he said I am the only one and I must have gotten some bad gas . . ."

Forum user number 4 - "Mine started knocking after the second full throttle pull, and I shut it down. My engine builder says my lower rod bearings are shot, and the bottom end needs a rebuild. He looked at the tune and saw that the spark advance was set to 38 degrees with the ability to retard on knock turned off, and the air fuel is leaner than he has ever seen . . ."

Now how many tunes is MadMan Tuning Solutions going to continue selling.

I mean, maybe there are some who push the numbers, but if you get a reputation for damaging your customer's expensive cars (lol, thirty years ago, who thought a Mustang would be an "expensive car"), then you will not be in business for long, because nobody will buy your product.

 

[Frogdog1]

There have been a lot of developments in other things, too, like cylinder head design.

Our stock 4 valve 5.0 heads flow far more than a dedicated racing head for a 302 back in the 60s.

The same goes for stock LS heads today v. the old muscle car cylinder heads.

True. That's why I said, "etc". Same engine as Coyote, just 427 displacement.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I logged Ethanol Free 87 [ Or as Some People would say, E85 with Zero Ethanol ] back in the Winter, 30degree IAT.

Had knock when I 1st floored it in 4th but it surprisingly cleared up and dialed in 26.9degrees timing and carried that thru 5th.

And No I don't use 87, I just tested it,


As for your question about how much timing can be dialed in on E85.

I'm seeing 31,6. And that's ramped in by 2800rpm.

Hence the reason tooners warn you not to run 'low' ethanol E85 with an aggressive E85 tune. Unless you want new pistons.

.




.

WOW, I cannot believe somebody knew exactly what I was wondering about!

 

[GrabThatBlue]

Where do you see that from Ford? I am not see that anywhere on Ford's site...

If it was a Chinese car I would understand your comment, but this is an American car. They will never give you a lower HP number if they can find a reason to advertise a higher one.

 

[robvas]

Where do you see that from Ford? I am not see that anywhere on Ford's site...

Posted it on the previous page

Sponsored