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Ace

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It's shame Chevy is letting the Camaro die. The Camaro6 had the performance advantage to the 15 GT when it launched, but Ford stepped up the Mustang with the 18 refresh so it performed on par while still offering more space and practicability.

Then Chevy did pretty much nothing with their refresh besides ruining the exterior of the car and going away from the not that great 8 speed with shudder problems.

Now, the Gen 7 Mustang is clearly ahead of the Camaro. Still more space, but now having all the modern tech you expect. And the horsepower boost and platform upgrades will finally make it the faster car without a doubt. Export markets will have to wait how much GPF will tune down power though.

I would have love to see more material quality upgrades in the interior. But even as a former Camaro owner, you have to be crazy to order a brand new Camaro instead of the S650 (if you get MSRP). I talked with a few Camaro guys and the design of the Gen 7 really works for many Camaro owners, which is just genius of Ford here.

The only Camaro really worth it is the ZL1 now. With Ford pausing the Gt500 for quite some time with Gen 7 there isn't any performance competition for the ZL1.
 

TheEndarkenment

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I talked with a few Camaro guys and the design of the Gen 7 really works for many Camaro owners, which is just genius of Ford here.
I agree with this! I owned a 2016 Camaro SS for a few years. My business and life was botched by a global mass hysteria and now I no longer own it.

As an ex Camaro owner I think the Mustang 7g looks AMAZING. I can certainly see the Camaro'ish parts everyone is talking about and it makes me giggle Ford allowed it. I think they were just aiming for a great design and there has always been a little cross over. I've always loved ALL muscle cars but lean Camaro. Thought the 6gen Mustang was great though. I prefer the 7gen over the 6th gen refresh. I would likely get a 7gen Mustang as next muscle car.
 

Stonehauler

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It's shame Chevy is letting the Camaro die. The Camaro6 had the performance advantage to the 15 GT when it launched, but Ford stepped up the Mustang with the 18 refresh so it performed on par while still offering more space and practicability.
It makes me wonder if Chevrolet is going to do something with an electric version of a similarly sized vehicle. If so, it would be interesting to see what the differences are...
 

Ace

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It makes me wonder if Chevrolet is going to do something with an electric version of a similarly sized vehicle. If so, it would be interesting to see what the differences are...
Latest rumors state the Lansing plant will build the electric corvette (not C8, standalone model) and an SUV-like Corvette variant in the future. That would fit the rumors the Camaro production will end in 2024 without any successor since the plant will build Corvette models instead.
 


Spectre

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But even as a former Camaro owner, you have to be crazy to order a brand new Camaro instead of the S650 (if you get MSRP). I talked with a few Camaro guys and the design of the Gen 7 really works for many Camaro owners, which is just genius of Ford here.
Agreed. I'm one of those who was seriously considering a 2023 1LE but the Dark Horse just stomped all over that plan.
 

Schwerin

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I actually think the Camaro looks better now.
 

ALUSA

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Agreed. I'm one of those who was seriously considering a 2023 1LE but the Dark Horse just stomped all over that plan.
I think you should still consider the 23 1le. You can get it for $45K in 1ss trim and save most likely $20K compared to a Dark Horse with similar performance. SS1LE is slept on alot for some reason. In this kind of economy i am not sure how and why though.
 

ALUSA

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It's shame Chevy is letting the Camaro die. The Camaro6 had the performance advantage to the 15 GT when it launched, but Ford stepped up the Mustang with the 18 refresh so it performed on par while still offering more space and practicability.

Then Chevy did pretty much nothing with their refresh besides ruining the exterior of the car and going away from the not that great 8 speed with shudder problems.

Now, the Gen 7 Mustang is clearly ahead of the Camaro. Still more space, but now having all the modern tech you expect. And the horsepower boost and platform upgrades will finally make it the faster car without a doubt. Export markets will have to wait how much GPF will tune down power though.

I would have love to see more material quality upgrades in the interior. But even as a former Camaro owner, you have to be crazy to order a brand new Camaro instead of the S650 (if you get MSRP). I talked with a few Camaro guys and the design of the Gen 7 really works for many Camaro owners, which is just genius of Ford here.

The only Camaro really worth it is the ZL1 now. With Ford pausing the Gt500 for quite some time with Gen 7 there isn't any performance competition for the ZL1.
I think you missed the SS 1le. ZL1 is nice and all probably same price range as the Dark Horse but SS1le is more of a performance match and quite abit cheaper than the Dark Horse. We are probably talking about 20 grand.
 

OppoLock

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It's shame Chevy is letting the Camaro die. The Camaro6 had the performance advantage to the 15 GT when it launched, but Ford stepped up the Mustang with the 18 refresh so it performed on par while still offering more space and practicability.

Then Chevy did pretty much nothing with their refresh besides ruining the exterior of the car and going away from the not that great 8 speed with shudder problems.

Now, the Gen 7 Mustang is clearly ahead of the Camaro. Still more space, but now having all the modern tech you expect. And the horsepower boost and platform upgrades will finally make it the faster car without a doubt. Export markets will have to wait how much GPF will tune down power though.

I would have love to see more material quality upgrades in the interior. But even as a former Camaro owner, you have to be crazy to order a brand new Camaro instead of the S650 (if you get MSRP). I talked with a few Camaro guys and the design of the Gen 7 really works for many Camaro owners, which is just genius of Ford here.

The only Camaro really worth it is the ZL1 now. With Ford pausing the Gt500 for quite some time with Gen 7 there isn't any performance competition for the ZL1.
Really either impressed with Ford’s product planning team and marketing department, or blown away by the incompetency of the Camaro team’s. Chevy had all of the ingredients to a superior product that mattered, but they wrapped it in a package with so many compromises and devoid of the kind of flare, gimmicks, and practicality that the S550–and now S650–provide in spades.

On the other hand, Ford was smart to match Chevy on the performance side in terms of numbers. People only care about 0-60s and 1/4s, peak horsepower and how many gears a transmission has and whether or not its halfway snappy. They don’t care to know that the way an SS or SS 1LE pull those numbers off is so much more enjoyable than an S550 when it comes to the intangibles like steering characteristics or cornering dynamics.

Sticking fat aggressive tires and a buttoned down suspension helps, but focusing on that minimizes the big differences between the two platforms and the amount of work Chevy’s engineers put into the small decisions.

Hoping Ford really dissected the Camaro and made subtle improvements to the small things this time. Not really a question from anyone whether or not it’ll check off boxes.

Damn Chevy, why did you have to make it a pillbox, and why did you have to make it so dang ugly with that refresh.
 

zstanny

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If you are ok to mod, you can get a 1LE for 46, spend 6K, make 600 crank. A DH over a 1LE, dollar/performance is not there. Now the DH looks way more rad, and is a decent power jump retaining a factory warranty. I’m likely skipping the aftermarket option on my 1LE and just getting a DH.

Agreed. I'm one of those who was seriously considering a 2023 1LE but the Dark Horse just stomped all over that plan.
 

ALUSA

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If you are ok to mod, you can get a 1LE for 46, spend 6K, make 600 crank. A DH over a 1LE, dollar/performance is not there. Now the DH looks way more rad, and is a decent power jump retaining a factory warranty. I’m likely skipping the aftermarket option on my 1LE and just getting a DH.
I am not sure. A regular GT350 had 526 hp and was still close to Camaro ss 1le in performance. The overall torque on the lt1 engine is pretty decent. You do see the HP advantage on the very long straights though. I might consider the DH too depending on the price and actual outcome. If the car really starts at 65 grand though, i would either keep the camaro or go for a C8. I hope Ford stepped up the quality. One thing that I can give advise is for never go for the first year production vehicle. I had lots of headaches with the 15 gtpp. Learned my lesson in a hard way.
 

Ace

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Really either impressed with Ford’s product planning team and marketing department, or blown away by the incompetency of the Camaro team’s. Chevy had all of the ingredients to a superior product that mattered, but they wrapped it in a package with so many compromises and devoid of the kind of flare, gimmicks, and practicality that the S550–and now S650–provide in spades
The sad thing is that they even had a Camaro on Alpha 2 in the making which would also release as the actually leaked Cadillac coupe. you can easily see the Camaro bodylines and they actually fixed all the problems with the Camaro by making the windows higher and even add a hatchback trunk.
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Pretty sure the solution to the question why Chevrolet stopped caring about the Camaro lies within the C8 Stingray. If you have ~$55-70k for a sporty basically 2 seater, why going for a 2SS 1LE or ZL1 instead of a Stingray? The Stingray is faster without being as uncomfortable stiff as the 1LEs, has a different league of interior and even has more trunkspace.
 

zstanny

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Note I mentioned IF you’re ok spending 6K and completely going into the LT1 for heads/cam work. That’s a big if because A lot of people aren’t. Good point of first year production issues. I’m glad I held off on tbe 350s until they made the track pack standard after learning the hard way the tech pack wasn’t cutting it. 😂 I’d imagine we will get fed a little more info as we approach order banks opening.

I am not sure. A regular GT350 had 526 hp and was still close to Camaro ss 1le in performance. The overall torque on the lt1 engine is pretty decent. You do see the HP advantage on the very long straights though. I might consider the DH too depending on the price and actual outcome. If the car really starts at 65 grand though, i would either keep the camaro or go for a C8. I hope Ford stepped up the quality. One thing that I can give advise is for never go for the first year production vehicle. I had lots of headaches with the 15 gtpp. Learned my lesson in a hard way.
 

shogun32

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Sat in a 4V blackwing and a 5V blackwing the other day. Such a NICE car and the sport seats handled my extra girth with perfect comfort. The SS/1LE's Recaro's are a bit of a squeeze in the ribs (and hips) but comfortable enough for 3hr stints with no stops.

Now the decision is bare-bones SS/1LE (probably used with low miles) or splashing out for the 4V BW. The 5V dash is 'slap a tablet on it' gross but the back seat is a true 4-adult experience with lots of leg and head room. The 4V is a "SMALL" car and the back seat is as useless as the Mustang/SS except that ingress/egress is easier due to the doors. But still double-amputee or small child only.

The dealer has a slightly used 4V BW with Carbon 1+2 and 6MT coming in tomorrow and I'm going to test drive it. But it's black so I won't ever buy. My Audi (V8 + 6MT) is black and I won't be making that mistake again! The more I drive the Audi the more I'm impressed by it's poise, power and 'drive it fast and hard' confidence despite it's 2012 age. The Mustang by comparison is loose and imprecise.
 
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