💵 Official: 2024 Mustang U.S. Pricing Starts at $32,515 and Dark Horse Priced at $59,565

[Hack]

Baffling oversimplification. You want more power? Cool. Pay for stronger internals, more complex engines and accessories, bigger brakes, bigger tires, beefier suspension components, and stronger chassis construction, ALL which would significantly impact weight, fuel economy, and cost. Your GR86 is literally the perfect example of why low power equals low weight, low cost, and low running expenses.

Yes, I agree if Ford made a real increase in power that would require adjustments to some other areas of the car. Many of the things you named would not require changes, though unless the car was intended to be a track car. And a 600 or 700 HP engine can be simpler than a 480 HP engine. You can easily make 1,000 HP with an NA 1960's Ford pushrod engine and some bolt on parts. Also, remember the GT500? The Mustang chassis can accommodate some power increases over 480 HP.

Yes, design changes cost money. They'd have to overhaul the entire car's formula. Spend what I would assume is at least double into developing a brand new powerplant in an era where literally nobody else is investing into volume ICE units because they're going extinct. NOT because it's "hard" for them to make high power engines, but because it needs to be 1) warrantied and 2) regulation compliant.

They already have studied what to do with more than 700 HP in the car. And all the fancy Shelby stuff isn't necessary for a street car.

And good luck selling this thing anywhere outside of the US, where emissions laws are even stricter. If you weren't already aware, the GT500 can't be sold in Europe because it can't pass emissions regulations.

Unless you want Ford to downsize to a turbocharged 4 or 6 cylinder or rely heavily on hybrid tech like EU products, which I can bet my life savings on would be a huge no.


Shrinking the car would be nice, except the back seats are already tiny and storage is just sufficient. Didn't work out well for the Camaro. And it's not like they sell enough of them to justify amortizing the costs of aluminum like they do on an F-150 which sells 10-fold the volume.

You might be okay with no rear seats or a small trunk; I doubt the general, non-hardcore enthusiast population would say the same.


What's nearly 90k?

DH pricing is in this thread. Most Mustang buyers would be fine with a smaller rear seat and a smaller trunk. Ford sells Mustangs with multiple engines. They don't all have to be available in every market. People who want the big engine can figure out ways to work around whatever EU rules are there.

I don't think Camaro died because of rear seats. There's a lot more issues with the car than that. For me, it was mostly how the car drove - pushrod engine, cheap shifter, stuff like that. Pricing included. If it had been enough cheaper I would have bought one.

Multiport injection's only drawback is that its design is technically more complex. But you get the benes of DI without worrying about clogged valves and carbon buildup. Assuming the fuel pumps are reliable, MPI is a better alternative than DI. And both are exceedingly more efficient than standard port injection.

It's a bunch of tech that does nothing for me, the end user. I don't care about fuel economy (not when it's just a couple MPG). So the car costs more to make and it has less value for me. Not a formula for sales success.

And that thing you mentioned about how easy it is to build a 600hp engine? Good luck making a modern engine hit those numbers without DI/MPI that can pass emission regulations. You won't find one that's unless it's being force fed air with a supercharger or turbocharger, which WILL add more weight, more cost, and more complexity than the former.

Other car companies do it. Ford has a lot more resources than Ferrari. They're making a 800+ HP NA engine right now.

Well it's a good thing they didn't because then the car wouldn't sell internationally AND they'd have an even harder time passing CAFE standards considering higher displacement engines, with all other factors being the same, will produce worse fuel economy.

I urge you to learn up on road taxes around the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_tax

The 5.0's already a big bertha across the seas. Most countries tax by displacement and the big penalties start after 2.0Ls.

If a typical used car is better and cheaper than what they are allowing companies to sell, they are asking for trouble.

I don't blame you for wanting the same buying power we all had 10 years ago but I think you need a perspective check.

I have similar buying power, but a little more common sense. Probably buying a new 2015 and then a new 2016 GT350 the next year changed my thoughts on new cars. And 10 years ago the new cars were improving. I think the 2015+ Mustangs are quite a bit better than the previous stick axle cars. Now I don't think they are improving enough anymore. Would you sell your 1970 Boss 429 and buy a 1978 King Cobra?

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[OppoLock]

Yes, I agree if Ford made a real increase in power that would require adjustments to some other areas of the car. Many of the things you named would not require changes, though unless the car was intended to be a track car. And a 600 or 700 HP engine can be simpler than a 480 HP engine. You can easily make 1,000 HP with an NA 1960's Ford pushrod engine and some bolt on parts. Also, remember the GT500? The Mustang chassis can accommodate some power increases over 480 HP.

Can you list off one mass-volume N/A engine producing 600hp or more that is currently on sale? How about one under $100,000? You can't say anything about the Challenger/Charger duo. They're being discontinued due to emission regulations and a push toward EV models. Because again, this isn't easy. And they need to sell the cars they build. And in order to do that, they have to pass regulations in various markets (Cali is the Nazi state of the US and only a step behind the totalitarian car world of the EU market) and come to the public with a warranty to 1) have a market and 2) not scare people away.

What about a single car with an engine, N/A or otherwise, "easily" producing 1,000hp from the factory with a warranty for under $100,000 in the past... ever?

If it's so easy to make 1,000hp on a 1960s Ford pushrod, why is Ford not obviously doing that? It's so easy, why not?

Shoot, why aren't any other companies just pumping out 1,000hp cars if it's just as simple and easy as any other GT-level product?

And yes, I remember the GT500. An expensive car loaded with coolers, big brakes, big tires, a DCT, a large, fuel-chugging, supercharged V8, sold in low volume that cannot be sold globally because of its emissions, specifically intended as a low-volume unit. Are you suggesting that Ford release a GT500-equivalent for DH pricing? Basically making it newer, with newer tech, and cheaper?

They already have studied what to do with more than 700 HP in the car. And all the fancy Shelby stuff isn't necessary for a street car.

They still need to sell the car. Have you seen any of those dealer-installed builds where they take a GT, slap a supercharger on, call it warrantied with some tacked-on 2 year deal, and sell them to the public for 50-60k? Nobody buys them. I wonder why?

And remember, dealer-installed parts bin specials don't have to deal with any of the emissions regulations, taxation laws, long term warranty factors, or critical journalist reviews that a factory model would.

DH pricing is in this thread. Most Mustang buyers would be fine with a smaller rear seat and a smaller trunk. Ford sells Mustangs with multiple engines. They don't all have to be available in every market. People who want the big engine can figure out ways to work around whatever EU rules are there.

Equipment Group/Option	2024 Ford Mustang Dark Horse	2023 Ford Mustang Mach 1	+ / – Mach 1
Base price	$57,970	$56,570	+$1400
700A	$2,595	$2,095	+$500
Appearance Package	$1,250	$1,250	$0
Handling Package	$4,500	$4,500	$0
Recaro Seats	$1,650	$1,650	$0
10-speed automatic	$1,595	$1,595	$0
Carbon Fiber Wheels	$8,495	-

Base: $58k.
Loaded MT without CF wheels: $68k.
Loaded AT without CF wheels: $70k.
Loaded MT with CF wheels: $78k.
Loaded AT with CF wheels: $80k.

What's 90k?

>They don't all have to be available in every market. People who want the big engine can figure out ways to work around whatever EU rules are there.

But you want them to be cheaper yet also want them to push products with less market share capability?

So make them lighter and smaller, essentially turning the Mustang into a 2-seater for the first time in 60 years, reducing buyers looking for a single car setup. Make it more powerful yet reduce engine complexity. Make the fuel economy significantly worse by demanding power figures that are approx. 20% higher ('easily'). And make it cheaper?

I don't think Camaro died because of rear seats. There's a lot more issues with the car than that. For me, it was mostly how the car drove - pushrod engine, cheap shifter, stuff like that. Pricing included. If it had been enough cheaper I would have bought one.

The Camaro is universally lauded for its chassis and driving dynamics. There isn't a single recognized professional automotive source out there that has panned the Alpha chassis for the way it drove.

There is unanimous criticism for its pillbox design and its complete lack of storage, both the interior storage and the trunk designed to fit a maximum of one grocery bag at a time.

And obviously its styling.

It's a bunch of tech that does nothing for me, the end user. I don't care about fuel economy (not when it's just a couple MPG). So the car costs more to make and it has less value for me. Not a formula for sales success.

YOU don't care about fuel economy. It is literally the number one factor next to safety. And safety is now as much sold through 5-star crash ratings as it is "how many safety features are standard and how complete are the active safety suites." And now crash regulations factor in said safety suites and will penalize poor performing or omitted features.

We're forum geeks and hardcore car nerds that will create 10 page threads complaining about an engine cover and a parking brake.

The hundreds of thousands of other buyers want tech, safety, looks, and newness. We hate digital dashes; customers are buying digital dashes. They will continue to make digital dashes, save money on material and construction, and rake in buyers.

What you want is not what the general population wants.

We like cars. Ford cut cars. A close-minded enthusiast would assume that Ford is made a big mistake.

Except Ford now has segment-winning products people are buying in magnitudes higher than the Mustang. Their trucks face far less strict regulations in the US because that's how the EPA is set up (wack, but reality).

Doug has an appropriately convenient and recent video on this.

Other car companies do it. Ford has a lot more resources than Ferrari. They're making a 800+ HP NA engine right now.

Who is mass producing 800+ hp NA engines right now? Will keep harping on this: the world of emissions regulations is far more demanding than you likely understand. Low volume products get exemptions.

Think about it like this, almost EVERY modern ICE technological advancement has been made for the sake of efficiency. Variable cams, variable timing, direct injection, 10-speed automatics, small-displacement forced induction replacing high-displacement N/A engines, HYBRIDS and EVs.

Circling back, who in their right mind would go through all of these complex technologies when it's so easy to produce 1000hp on a 60s pushrod engine?

If a typical used car is better and cheaper than what they are allowing companies to sell, they are asking for trouble.

Used car argument fallacy. I just made that term up.

I have similar buying power, but a little more common sense. Probably buying a new 2015 and then a new 2016 GT350 the next year changed my thoughts on new cars. And 10 years ago the new cars were improving. I think the 2015+ Mustangs are quite a bit better than the previous stick axle cars. Now I don't think they are improving enough anymore. Would you sell your 1970 Boss 429 and buy a 1978 King Cobra?

You objectively, factually have less buying power than you did 10 years ago.

...Today's prices are 1.37 times as high as average prices since 2010, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index. A dollar today only buys 72.887% of what it could buy back then.

The inflation rate in 2010 was 1.64%. The current inflation rate compared to last year is now 6.41%. If this number holds, $1,000 today will be equivalent in buying power to $1,064.10 next year.

Source: https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2010?amount=1000#:~:text=This means that today's prices,rate in 2010 was 1.64%.

And there isn't a ground-breaking leap equivalent to the S197-S550 gap for the S650 to recreate. Ford held onto the SRA for about 10 years too long and people were begging for that change well ahead of any confirmation that the S550 provided (except for forum geeks who, again, thought it was a big mistake and assumed everyone shared their preferences for a SRA to flex at the drag strip).

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

I think it is just wrong to look at new price increases without considering what you get from the dealer for your trade in. You all may be able to afford the new Mustang better than you think. I bet the new improvements in the 2024 Mustang will be worthwhile.

 

[Skye]

I think it is just wrong to look at new price increases without considering what you get from the dealer for your trade in. You all may be able to afford the new Mustang better than you think.

People do trade-in and trade-up all the time, are happy with and enjoy their cars. Good on them. But doing so often hands all the advantages to the dealer, who wins on both sides of the trade. If financing with that dealer is involved, even more so.

Dealer wants and accepts a person's trade-in. It's an easy exchange. I doubt they're going to give you the best price. The dealer is not the new buyer/owner, but he's flipping the car to someone else and has to pay you less.

Buying the new car, most would lose again. Some dealers do offer invoice deals, but most don't. Dealer wins yet again. Admin, doc and other fees with all the above cloud insight into how much their take is.

Carvana for a time was over-paying or paying full price to buy peoples' cars, the end result them being bankrupt or near so. The used car market was, until recently, exceptionally strong. The customer would have to feel some places out to see what price would be offered. I'd focus on a national chain that does a lot of volume in used cars.

With that transaction in-play, now, pursue the purchase of the new car, focusing on best price.

With dealer trade-in, dealer new car sale, they do all the work, and maximize profit at every point. In the manner I described above, the seller does all the work, and, IMO, has best chance at getting best price on both transactions. It also keeps everything separate and clear.

Others with experience in these transactions could chime in and provide some better insight, maybe a few pitfalls to avoid, or a few tricks to implement.

 

[Rio Lobo]

People do trade-in and trade-up all the time, are happy with and enjoy their cars. Good on them. But doing so often hands all the advantages to the dealer, who wins on both sides of the trade. If financing with that dealer is involved, even more so.

Dealer wants and accepts a person's trade-in. It's an easy exchange. I doubt they're going to give you the best price. The dealer is not the new buyer/owner, but he's flipping the car to someone else and has to pay you less.

Buying the new car, most would lose again. Some dealers do offer invoice deals, but most don't. Dealer wins yet again. Admin, doc and other fees with all the above cloud insight into how much their take is.

Carvana for a time was over-paying or paying full price to buy peoples' cars, the end result them being bankrupt or near so. The used car market was, until recently, exceptionally strong. The customer would have to feel some places out to see what price would be offered. I'd focus on a national chain that does a lot of volume in used cars.

With that transaction in-play, now, pursue the purchase of the new car, focusing on best price.

With dealer trade-in, dealer new car sale, they do all the work, and maximize profit at every point. In the manner I described above, the seller does all the work, and, IMO, has best chance at getting best price on both transactions. It also keeps everything separate and clear.

Others with experience in these transactions could chime in and provide some better insight, maybe a few pitfalls to avoid, or a few tricks to implement.

But don't forget the decrease in taxable value of your purchase due to trading in a vehicle. That can be substantial and wipe out gains selling your car separately, especially if your trade is a later model vehicle.

EG taxes for me on a $60k car would be $3,000. If I trade in something for $40k, then my new car taxable value is $20k and tax bill is $1000.

So trading in my car with the same dealership reduces my tax bill by $2000. I would have to make sure any offer from a third party (private or otherwise) is $2000 better than what dealership #1 is giving for my trade.

Yes they're trying to make money on everything. But don't let a trade in make you feel like dealerships have all the power. Walk in with a check from your bank or credit union, and they have even less power

 

[amk91]

Yes everything after the new tech gets some age to it. First c/d players were thousands, they are what 30 bucks now. same with most things.
This s650 is Joan rivers with a face lift. They are not building a car that run circles around the s550. And those prices listed are for the base cars, before you start adding options.
So a gt prem is 47610, then add mag ride, active exhaust, hifi stereo, optional extra cost paint colors , etc and you are at 60k or more as a s550 was 53-54 optioned out.
You are not going to find a base gt prem no options on a lot, the dealers are not going to order them that way. the dark horse starts at 59565.00 then start checking option boxes.
The arguement of it is the only game in town is lame.

Oh come on, that is absolutely not true at all. A loaded S550 is nearly $64,000. A convertible is even worse!

I don't know you got that figure from, because I remember my 2017 GT PPP 401A being the most loaded possible and mine was just below $48,000. $47,610.

I called this 3-4 years ago, when I saw how much a loaded S550 was costing in convertible configuration, touching 60K already. A lot of people didn't believe me, but I knew it would reach this point.

The Mustang nameplate has gone from an affordable secretary's car to taking up the role cars like the Thunderbird and Lincoln Marks once had as personal coupes at a higher price point.

These pony cars were supposed to be strictly bargain performance or sporty image of it, but that line became blurred with the gutting of other two doors in the lineup. Today's pony cars are forced to do everything at once.

Be affordable, be a little luxurious, pack high performance, have modern technology, and be livable daily.

Judging by the price increases, a loaded GT Premium Convertible is over $70k and sub-DH coupe probably already $70k with everything!!!

 

[Rag]

When I bought a loaded s550 was 54800 and change the converts were pushing 59 k.
So come on. The car is now to costly for the market of buyers, as the buyers are not going to buy a base car just to own one. when they can walk into any other make and get a 300+ hp v6 car with much of the bells for e/b prem pricepoint. you forget that not everyone is rear drive or nothing. the buying public proved that. not that it matter to ford, they can't seem to deliver ordered cars to the buyers that already put money down.
What they will do is buy a 2 year old one that is loaded up that the rental business sells off.
That is the problem, it isn't the 60's where if you wanted more bells you moved up a brand, today the bottom of barel models come with more than the base stang .
Sorry the old guys me included are slowly aging out, and the younger buyers are not set against a fwd/awd car. Ford offering a rear drive v8 car and thinking because it is the only game in town at x price is not going to fair will, the younger buyers will buy something else or buy used. Ford could offer the car for less, if they streamlined the model lineup.

 

[bnightstar]

When I bought a loaded s550 was 54800 and change the converts were pushing 59 k.
So come on. The car is now to costly for the market of buyers, as the buyers are not going to buy a base car just to own one. when they can walk into any other make and get a 300+ hp v6 car with much of the bells for e/b prem pricepoint. you forget that not everyone is rear drive or nothing. the buying public proved that. not that it matter to ford, they can't seem to deliver ordered cars to the buyers that already put money down.
What they will do is buy a 2 year old one that is loaded up that the rental business sells off.
That is the problem, it isn't the 60's where if you wanted more bells you moved up a brand, today the bottom of barel models come with more than the base stang .
Sorry the old guys me included are slowly aging out, and the younger buyers are not set against a fwd/awd car. Ford offering a rear drive v8 car and thinking because it is the only game in town at x price is not going to fair will, the younger buyers will buy something else or buy used. Ford could offer the car for less, if they streamlined the model lineup.

Problem as I see it is that the S550/S650 V8 is not powerful enough and car is not light enough to compete with the M2/Supra's of the world it's sad to be said but a i6+Turbo offer more grunt performance per dollar than a Ford V8 in a pig of a car. And with the price increase pushing the Dark Horse way over the price of a modded M2/Supra this just make the deal even more in favour of the BMW brand. And the interior quality is much better in BMW as well. And you still get RWD car which is much lighter and because of that nimble and faster than an S550/S650.

 

[SuperZaynn]

If rates weren't so high right now it wouldn't be a problem, I have a 766 when they ran it at the dealership the other day and they quoted me damn near a 9%, no debt besides my car and the house. 4 auto loans paid off. my buddy works for a Toyota dealership and just sold a guy a 4runner, dude had PERFECT CREDIT, no debt, and make 144k a year, he got a 7.88. interest is gonna kill some people. 60k at 4.5 and 84months is about 850 a month, 60k at 9 percent for the same term is right at 1k per month. Unless your putting a crazy amount down like 20k-30k i would hold off until rates go down because me personally, don't believe in putting that much liquid cash on a depreciating asset, especially with the times we have had over the past 3 years, you never know what's gonna happen lol

With that being said, i hope everyone gets what they want at the price they want, I am in no way shape of form a financial consultant , I just have a degree in finance, so take it for what its worth lol

 

[Twizzty]

Interesting take on the current pricing of new Fords.

 

[bnightstar]

Interesting take on the current pricing of new Fords.

You have to consider a few factors why in the last 10 years the prices of new cars especially ICE cars are going up.

1. Security in 2023 is mandatory for the cars to have a lot more tech like the ford 360 co pilot in order to be considered safe this jack up R&D costs a lot and also adds a lot of features that you don't need.
2. Emissions in 2023 are way strict than in 2013. Which mean that you need to spend more on things like stop and go options or hybrid tech in order to pass emissions.
3. Inflation - all the printing of money in 2020 is leading to the worst inflation in the past 15 years. We didn't seen such inflation numbers since 2008. So this combined with the outrageous move in prices of aluminium and other commodities also lead to high prices.

And speaking of high prices how no one is discussing how much a Coyote create motor increased this year. I think is more than 30%.

So to put this in perspective I bought my base Fiesta new in 2013 for around 13 000$ today a new Puma (since Fiesta is discontinued) is 24 000$ or more than double what I payed for my Fiesta. Since new cars even entry ones are unobtainable this makes people start buying used cars which in turn jack up used cars prices I can sell my 10 years old fiesta for around 5000-5500$ according to the local cars sales site comparison or it retained a lot more money than I was hoping to retain.
Hope this put things in perspective. I do think however that compared to other euro brands the S650 is not a performance bargain.

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