“Next Gen” Mustang Will be Electric (EV) Only Claims Autoline

[Mikthehun1]

All excellent points but I was only addressing the charging Vs. fill-up issue.

Long distance travel does change the equation. When I visit family up on Long Island I would have to stop and recharge, probably twice. Unless I was stopping for a meal that would be an inconvenience. But I only do this a couple of times a year so I’d deal with it. Now if I had to do this weekly, no way.

Now if I were generating my own energy, electric would be cheaper. Electric cars have far fewer parts and should be more reliable. No 2k rattles or BBQ ticks

Fun to drive.......let’s just say that my GT/CS is going to be in my garage for a very long time.

Forget about the ticks, rattles, and creaks, the 2035 Mustang is gonna have the Coil Whine.

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[ORRadtech]

2 minutes might be a slight exaggeration. Possibly it's 4 minutes TOTAL. The Fiesta's range is well over 300 miles on a 12.4 gallon tank of gas, but time to put 10 gallons in the tank to fill completely up is not long. And the card takes a few seconds to read. You must go to a place with older equipment or something.



The time to charge a $70K Model S is 97 hours at normal house 110 voltage, 12 hours at 220 volts with a special setup required, and 1.33 hours at a very dangerous 440 volts.

Not competitive at all.

And 50% charge in 20 minutes is crazy. No way am I going to sit around for 20 minutes waiting for a HALF of a charge. Not when I can fill COMPLETELY up in such a short time with a gas powered vehicle. And don't rapid and partial charges shorten your battery life?

I'm not sure w,hy you think 440v would be very dangerous? It would be no different than being killed by a pick-up VS a dump truck, you'll still be dead.
In the US it would be extravagantly expensive to do in a private residence but no more dangerous than the current 220v. If it were wouldn't we be hearing a hue and cry from Europe to move to a lower residential voltage? Don't they currently use 230v for lighting and 400v for heavy appliances?
In the US the infrastructure is not in place for 440v to residential customers. It would require the replacement of your service transformer- or adding an additional one - to bring 440v inside. But no real additional risk.

On the rest of your points I agree.

 

[Mikthehun1]

I'm not sure w,hy you think 440v would be very dangerous? It would be no different than being killed by a pick-up VS a dump truck, you'll still be dead.
In the US it would be extravagantly expensive to do in a private residence but no more dangerous than the current 220v. If it were wouldn't we be hearing a hue and cry from Europe to move to a lower residential voltage? Don't they currently use 230v for lighting and 400v for heavy appliances?
In the US the infrastructure is not in place for 440v to residential customers. It would require the replacement of your service transformer- or adding an additional one - to bring 440v inside. But no real additional risk.

On the rest of your points I agree.

I think the general issue is that people are dumb, and can't be trusted with a 5v phone charger.

 

[ORRadtech]

I wonder when we'll start to see competitions/records being set for cross country trips with commercially available EVs?
It seems to me that the infrastructure is similar to the very early days of ICE and aviation when everyone was trying to be the first to drive/fly cross country and then to be the fastest to do so.
A Cannon Ball run type thing.

 

[Norm Peterson]

And 50% charge in 20 minutes is crazy. No way am I going to sit around for 20 minutes waiting for a HALF of a charge. Not when I can fill COMPLETELY up in such a short time with a gas powered vehicle. And don't rapid and partial charges shorten your battery life?

From what I've read, battery capacity diminishes faster with high recharge rates. Exactly what you'd be doing on a trip. Supposedly it's already possible to get 500 high-rate recharges with some batteries without them dropping below 80% capacity.

Though that lost 20% would gradually force changes in where you stop when you do take a longer trip.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Agreed. There has to be massive upgrades to the infrastructure to support a large increase in electric vehicle usage. But that is being addressed and the change will be slow in coming.

I guess the question eventually becomes one of whether (or perhaps for how long) increasing EV usage will remain a continuous force driving that improvement. Guaranteed, if EV usage was to reach a plateau, infrastructure improvement would follow in short order.

That said it is possible to avoid the chance of this happening. Solar energy is a real alternative to the grid. Add a storage device and you can generate and store enough to fill up your car, run your house and make some money selling some back to the grid. Now, of course, this isn’t for everyone but it is another alternative.

Be very careful with those assumptions, particularly the one about selling excess electricity back to the grid. You may or may not be able to do that where you live, you may not get much for it if you can, and you will be responsible for paying income taxes on however much you do manage to sell back.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

All excellent points but I was only addressing the charging Vs. fill-up issue.

Long distance travel does change the equation. When I visit family up on Long Island I would have to stop and recharge, probably twice. Unless I was stopping for a meal that would be an inconvenience. But I only do this a couple of times a year so I’d deal with it. Now if I had to do this weekly, no way.

Right now, it's snowing out where I live. If you've ever had to work at getting your trip finished ahead of some incoming weather, you'd be considering this as well.

Now if I were generating my own energy, electric would be cheaper. Electric cars have far fewer parts and should be more reliable.

Fewer parts, sure. And fewer would be realistically owner-serviceable.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'm not sure why you think 440v would be very dangerous?

Not every EV is going to be able to be recharged inside a garage, and 440VAC is considerably more potent than the 33 open-circuit volts my MIG-welder puts out (which I've felt a few times when working on damp concrete).


Norm

 

[Bikeman315]

Be very careful with those assumptions, particularly the one about selling excess electricity back to the grid. You may or may not be able to do that where you live, you may not get much for it if you can, and you will be responsible for paying income taxes on however much you do manage to sell back.

Not making any assumptions just pointing out the alternatives. Even if you cannot or do not want to sell it back, the savings are there. And no worries about black/brownouts.

Right now, it's snowing out where I live. If you've ever had to work at getting your trip finished ahead of some incoming weather, you'd be considering this as well.

There are many things to consider. This is still an industry in its infancy. We will just have to wait until 2028 to see where were at.

Fewer parts, sure. And fewer would be realistically owner-serviceable.

Fewer parts that require servicing. This is basically powertrain related. You can still put air in your tires.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I think the general issue is that people are dumb, and can't be trusted with a 5v phone charger.

True. But there's also the issue of a failed electrical component not looking any different from a good one. This would include insulation at least up to the point where there was clearly visible cracking. Probably past that point for most people who'd just grab the cable and plug it in without looking.

Granted, I don't know all of the details of these cables. But it's hard to not see potential issues over the long run.


Norm

 

[Bikeman315]

Not every EV is going to be able to be recharged inside a garage, and 440VAC is considerably more potent than the 33 open-circuit volts my MIG-welder puts out (which I've felt a few times when working on damp concrete).

Norm

Norm, you're nitpicking. It is obvious that there are going to be those who will need to find alternative ways to charge their electric vehicles. These issues will need to be addressed, of course.

Honestly, with the continuing advancements in batteries and charging systems I do not think 110/220/440 is really an issue. But if you really wanted a 440v line having if safely and correctly installed it would be no more of a hazard than a 110/220v line.

 

[BrettT]

Right now, I think an EV is OK as a second car, too and from work, getting groceries etc. Puttering around town. As a replacement for an ICE, they have a long ways to go. The only way I would consider one as a main vehicle is it would have to be able to go from my place Richmond, BC to Penticton, 250 miles through the Mountains, with a minimum of 75 miles to spare and I drove hard the whole way. Every time, middle of summer 36C A/C full on. Middle of winter -5 to -10 C or colder with the heat on. There's no damn way, I'm stopping for an hour half way to plug in, because I have to wait for the jackass who has plugged in and gone for lunch. Not withstanding, the ability to generate sufficient electricity to charge an all electric car word. How long does it take to get a new generating plant built, 10-20 years?

Having said this, BC is the electric car capital of North America. More EV's per capita, than anywhere in North America. On my 20 minute commute to/from work, I will see at least 20+ Tesla's.

Glad I got my Bullitt, as it is likely the last. Won't be the same with an electric motor.

 

[Hack]

I'm not sure w,hy you think 440v would be very dangerous? It would be no different than being killed by a pick-up VS a dump truck, you'll still be dead.
In the US it would be extravagantly expensive to do in a private residence but no more dangerous than the current 220v. If it were wouldn't we be hearing a hue and cry from Europe to move to a lower residential voltage? Don't they currently use 230v for lighting and 400v for heavy appliances?
In the US the infrastructure is not in place for 440v to residential customers. It would require the replacement of your service transformer- or adding an additional one - to bring 440v inside. But no real additional risk.

On the rest of your points I agree.

I don't stand inches away from dump trucks as they speed by me, but putting a 440 volt plug into a receptacle means I'm less than an inch away from voltage (and current) that will easily kill. And in MN it is rarely dry. Areas like southern CA there's less concern with everything being soaked in mist or just outright wet almost constantly. But here it's not that way. That's why cars rust here.

I have a 440 v air compressor, so I do have that kind of voltage available here, but I have a lot of respect for the danger it represents. I have it hard wired. I don't plug and unplug it every day, wearing out the components over time.

My point being, the average person might not realize that handling a 440 v plug is like holding your hand next to the accessory drive on a V8 - when it's running. You are inches away from a potential life threatening situation.

One other thing I should say is that 110 isn't that dangerous. I've been shocked by it before and it's not comfortable but you have to really do something foolish like being wet standing in water for 110 to kill you. Of course it still can kill you. But 440 is much more dangerous.

 

[ORRadtech]

This is still an industry in its infancy. We will just have to wait until 2028 to see where were at.

That right there is the most important point made!

When the first model T rolled off the assembly line who would have invisioned what we have today? The Interstate system, gas stations everywhere, the advancements and variety of vehicles available not to mention the shear numbers of cars on the roads, who would have thought?
Now I don't see those kinds of changes in 7 years but 50, 75 or 100 years?
Certainly in 20 or 25 years the tide will be well on the way to changing.

 

[Gregs24]

The UK uses 3 phase for rapid charger stations. It is possible to recharge from 20% to 80% with a 80kWh battery in 20 minutes. UK 3 phase is 415v.

Domestic situations in the UK are all 240v single phase with up to 7kWh charging - so overnight for a full charge.

Balanced charging is now being tested in the UK where cars on charge actually get used by the grid for balancing load and storing electricity. Car charging systems are clever enough to be set to be available at a certain time so that before that time the car battery can be used as extra grid storage.

Range is pretty much a non- issue now if you choose appropriately. There are shorter range EV's (say around 150 miles) for urban use and then longer range options. Tesla amongst others are now pushing beyond 300 miles which equates to most ICE petrol cars. 20 minute recharge and back on the road. Yes infrastructure needs to be in place, but that is happening quickly over here now the 2030 ICE can is confirmed.

National electricity demand is also covered, UK consumption has been falling rapidly over the last 10 years, largely as a result of LED bulbs in houses and better efficiency in housing insulation. EV demand is not predicted to be a problem by our national grid supplier.

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