“Next Gen” Mustang Will be Electric (EV) Only Claims Autoline

[Mikthehun1]

In the US solar panels do NOT add to the value of your house, unless they are brand new. In fact the first and second gen of houses that have them are worth LESS due to the install.

Oh and remember the Gov't gets its money from where? YOU my friend so THEY are not installing anything YOU are at a pretty good markup if my experience with gov't contracting is any indicator.

And then the question always comes back to HOW is the electricity you are pumping into your car generated....in the US the majority is still generated via fossil fuels because the environmentalists HATE nuclear for some reason and its been dead here since the 70's. So....all you are doing is moving the emissions from YOUR tail pipe to the smoke stack of the generating plant at a greater BTU loss than shipping gasoline and using it directly.

And yet they seem to love hydro, which has an enormous environmental impact

But, two new units SHOULD go online this year and next:
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/nuclear/us-nuclear-industry.php

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[Norm Peterson]

Norm, you're nitpicking. It is obvious that there are going to be those who will need to find alternative ways to charge their electric vehicles. These issues will need to be addressed, of course.

It's too common a problem to hand-wave away as "nitpicking".

Not having a garage to put your car in (for any reason, not just to keep the electric things out of the weather) is really easy to picture.

No garage at all - many houses and most apartment . . . and nearly all city dwelling (a huge difficulty in exactly the place where an EV would otherwise make the most sense).

Or a garage that's not realistically big enough for current vehicles to use as such, and ends up being a workshop or additional living space).

It's easy to see these "obstacles" when you've lived them. Maybe not so easy if garage space has never been much of a problem.

Honestly, with the continuing advancements in batteries and charging systems I do not think 110/220/440 is really an issue. But if you really wanted a 440v line having if safely and correctly installed it would be no more of a hazard than a 110/220v line.

I'm less concerned about the installation than I am about long term use (think wear and tear). I've done some of my own house wiring over the years, up to and including 220 lines to the range and for the welding equipment. All stuff that you never get close to again like you would the charger to car cable.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Balanced charging is now being tested in the UK where cars on charge actually get used by the grid for balancing load and storing electricity. Car charging systems are clever enough to be set to be available at a certain time so that before that time the car battery can be used as extra grid storage.

If I'm understanding that correctly, it means that the power company can pull power out of your car battery if it needs to for load balancing purposes.

So tell me, what's the point of plugging in if the power company can take power away from where I need it to be for my next use?

Hard no here.


Norm

 

[Mikthehun1]

If I'm understanding that correctly, it means that the power company can pull power out of your car battery if it needs to for load balancing purposes.

So tell me, what's the point of plugging in if the power company can take power away from where I need it to be for my next use?

Hard no here.


Norm

Exactly why I said you need to/be allowed to install an off-grid system. Otherwise there isn't any point at all.

 

[Bikeman315]

It's easy to see these "obstacles" when you've lived them. Maybe not so easy if garage space has never been much of a problem.

Norm, I've lived them. Did not have my first stand alone home with a garage until I was 43 years old. Lived in New York City apartment buildings until then in New York City. No one said this was going to be easy or that it was happening tomorrow. But it will be figured out and it will be happening. There is no way around it.

I'm less concerned about the installation than I am about long term use (think wear and tear). I've done some of my own house wiring over the years, up to and including 220 lines to the range and for the welding equipment. All stuff that you never get close to again like you would the charger to car cable.

I think we can hold off the conversation on 440v chargers for now. Today's Level 2 chargers work on 220v and I believe that home chargers will remain that way for the foreseeable future.

So tell me, what's the point of plugging in if the power company can take power away from where I need it to be for my next use?

Norm, Greg said they are "testing" it, not doing it tomorrow. I'm sure they system will be setup to allow the owner to determine the times that power is pulled. How can you say no to something you no nothing about?

 

[Vlad Soare]

No one said this was going to be easy or that it was happening tomorrow. But it will be figured out and it will be happening. There is no way around it.

Yes, but they should first figure it out, then think of banning gas cars. They're doing it the other way around, which is absurd.
Besides, if they figure it out, then more people might actually start buying electric vehicles of their own will, leaving the sell of gas vehicles to drop naturally as less and less people will want them. No need for any ban at all.
They need to ban the sale of new cars simply because EVs are not ready yet. The very idea of a ban, in and of itself, is the best proof that EVs aren't a viable option.

 

[Bikeman315]

Yes, but they should first figure it out, then think of banning gas cars. They're doing it the other way around, which is absurd.
Besides, if they figure it out, then more people might actually start buying electric vehicles of their own will, leaving the sell of gas vehicles to drop naturally as less and less people will want them. No need for any ban at all.
They need to ban the sale of new cars simply because EVs are not ready yet. The very idea of a ban, in and of itself, is the best proof that EVs aren't a viable option.

Very hard to disagree with you on that. But keep in mind that the bans are as much, or more, politically charged as science or economics. This fully explains the ass backwards approach.

Now as far as viability, it differs. To some folks EV's are viable today. As the costs go down, the batteries get better and the infrastructure improves, viability will grow. If the bans push any of those things to happen quicker maybe they are aren't so bad after all. All we can do is what and see. And drive the hell out of our V8's.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Norm, Greg said they are "testing" it, not doing it tomorrow. I'm sure they system will be setup to allow the owner to determine the times that power is pulled. How can you say no to something you no nothing about?

I understand that it's not here yet.

From my point of view, how can you say 'yes' or even 'maybe yes' when there is such an obvious potential downside? "New" does not necessarily equate to "new and improved" for all concerned.


Norm

 

[zackmd1]

Odd that solar PV would devalue the house - what is the downside? You buy a house with free electricity generation ?

Clearly govt money comes from the people - and they tax and spend it as they are asked to do by those people. Taxation and incentivisation are applied to everything, from alcohol to sugar and petrol.

Depends on the country - Most electricity in the UK is from renewables and coal has been virtually phased out. No oil and a little gas used currently. One thing to remember about the energy density of petrol is that it is very inefficiently converted to power in an ICE (about 25% efficient) compared to nearly 100% with an electric motor.

The downside is how the solar panels were sold in the US. Most panels that are installed on houses are leases/loans. So that means when the house is sold, there is no real easy way (yet) to transfer ownership of the panels from the owner to the purchaser. It basically makes the buying process more difficult. People who bought panels with a loan attempt to recoup the cost by adding what they paid/owe to the price of the house. The issue there is the price of the system usually does not correlate to any significate increase in the value of the home due to buyers not being knowledgeable in the area or that the installed solar system usually does not fully cover the electric bill.

 

[Mikthehun1]

The downside is how the solar panels were sold in the US. Most panels that were installed on houses are leases/loans. So that means when the house is sold, there is no real easy way (yet) to transfer ownership of the panels from the owner to the purchaser. It basically makes the buying process more difficult. People who bought panels with a loan attempt to recoup the cost by adding what they paid/own to the price of the house. The issue there is the price of the panels usually does not correlate to any significate increase in the value of the home due to buyers not being knowledgeable in the area or that the installed solar system usually does not fully cover the electric bill.

Yup, passed up on a house partially because we didn't want someone else's leased equipment.

 

[zackmd1]

Yup, passed up on a house partially because we didn't want someone else's leased equipment.

See that is where something like the Tesla Solar Roof makes alot more sense to me. Since the panels are actually integral to the roof instead of just being installed overtop of an existing roof, the perceived value is much greater. The roof now has a "premium" look to it with the added benefit of being solar instead of having a traditional asphalt roof with panels slapped on top. Plus, (while I have not done much research in this area yet) I believe the solar roof can be paid for with a normal home improvement loan just like if you were to purchase a normal replacement roof. That would eliminate the issue of additional loans/leases to deal with when purchasing/selling.

 

[Mikthehun1]

See that is where something like the Tesla Solar Roof makes alot more sense to me. Since the panels are actually integral to the roof instead of just being installed overtop of an existing roof, the perceived value is much greater. The roof now has a "premium" look to it with the added benefit of being solar instead of having a traditional asphalt roof with panels slapped on top. Plus, (while I have not done much research in this area yet) I believe the solar roof can be paid for with a normal home improvement loan just like if you were to purchase a normal replacement roof. That would eliminate the issue of additional loans/leases to deal with when purchasing/selling.

And they look pretty sharp too, which is even more important

 

[Bikeman315]

In regards to Solar......Something new everyday.

Solar-Powered Charging Stations Are Vital to Promoting EVs

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green... -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

 

[Norm Peterson]

See that is where something like the Tesla Solar Roof makes alot more sense to me. Since the panels are actually integral to the roof instead of just being installed overtop of an existing roof, the perceived value is much greater. The roof now has a "premium" look to it with the added benefit of being solar instead of having a traditional asphalt roof with panels slapped on top. Plus, (while I have not done much research in this area yet) I believe the solar roof can be paid for with a normal home improvement loan just like if you were to purchase a normal replacement roof. That would eliminate the issue of additional loans/leases to deal with when purchasing/selling.

Some places get hail.

Trees occasionally shed branches that land where they're going to land. About a week ago about a 2.5" diameter branch ended up on our roof. I got lucky, and the wind eventually blew it down-slope and eventually off the roof entirely.

I guess you could choose to ignore such risks . . .


Norm

 

[Mikthehun1]

Some places get hail.

Trees occasionally shed branches that land where they're going to land. About a week ago about a 2.5" diameter branch ended up on our roof. I got lucky, and the wind eventually blew it down-slope and eventually off the roof entirely.

I guess you could choose to ignore such risks . . .


Norm

Modern PV panels are really strong. Plus, most HOI covers hail damage, I know mine does. Car windshields get broken by severe hail because they are actually designed to break (into "safe" pieces) in the event of an accident. It's a dramatic way to show hail damage, but doesn't apply to the hardened glass used in solar panels.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/hail-no-national-labs-solar-panels-survive-severe-storm

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