Would You Consider a Smaller Foxbody Inspired Mustang?

[DeluxeStang]

and MINISCULE actual production numbers compared to just one of the 6 variations the C2 platform supports.

Exactly, it's no surprise that it's difficult to make a business case for a new sports car due to low sales and profitability. Hence why platform sharing and trying to distribute those develop costs across multiple models is crucial.

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[Hack]

I understand the appeal. I just don't see the ROI for Ford.

https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/toyota/gr86

GR86 US sales for US. Make a cost justification to develop a new product line, (figure in a new assembly line, since its a unique platform) for 10K sales.

Yes sales are low. They are selling every car that is produced, though. Sales are limited by production numbers. It would be nice if they were making more cars for sure.

In order to get one I had to put money down to reserve a car while it was still in the production pipeline, wait two months until it arrived, and take the options that were available. I didn't get the color or the options I wanted.

I don't think Ford should only limit themselves to making the cars that absolutely sell the most or produce the most return on investment. In the past, Ford has been willing to make some cool cars in order to enhance their reputation. Such as the Ford GT. The Mustang used to produce great ROI at one time, but what they are currently making doesn't sell as well as past Mustang models did. They might not make money on those cars, but customers appreciate that Ford has the ability to make something good. Ford should always be looking at potential variations of these cars. Possibly they could create another design that would be a big hit like the original 1965 Mustang and the Mustang II.

I currently own a Toyota, but I don't think Toyota has the ability to make a car that I find interesting. This Toyota is a Subaru. The only other cool Toyota is really a BMW. So I don't really see the GR86 as enhancing Toyota's reputation. However, I got to see how the local Toyota dealership treats me vs. the Ford dealership. I can say that I wasn't disappointed in Toyota. They do a good job. Not like my GT350 that I got back with a huge door ding.

 

[6String]

I currently own a Toyota, but I don't think Toyota has the ability to make a car that I find interesting. This Toyota is a Subaru. The only other cool Toyota is really a BMW. So I don't really see the GR86 as enhancing Toyota's reputation. However, I got to see how the local Toyota dealership treats me vs. the Ford dealership. I can say that I wasn't disappointed in Toyota. They do a good job. Not like my GT350 that I got back with a huge door ding.

You don't think Ford should limit themselves to making cars that produce the best ROI--I don't think Ford stockholders would agree with that sentiment. I pointed out, Ford doesn't want to make a huge investment in design, engineering, and facilities to produce a low-cost product line to sell 10K units.

Review what you wrote. You're absolutely right, Toyota didn't make the car you like (GR86). They could not afford to manufacture the product, so they outsourced it. They offered it to their customers on someone else's dime--defraying a large chunk of the expense.

However, your comment does raise an interesting proposition. I lament that Ford sold most of its stake in Mazda. Rather than incurring the sole cost, a smaller, lighter, two-seat Mustang might be possible, IF the cost of the development could be shared with a partner like Mazda. The Miata has been/is a great bang for the buck proposition. I would love to see a joint venture between Mazda and Ford on a scaled-down Mustang.

 

[DeluxeStang]

You don't think Ford should limit themselves to making cars that produce the best ROI--I don't think Ford stockholders would agree with that sentiment. I pointed out, Ford doesn't want to make a huge investment in design, engineering, and facilities to produce a low-cost product line to sell 10K units.

Review what you wrote. You're absolutely right, Toyota didn't make the car you like (GR86). They could not afford to manufacture the product, so they outsourced it. They offered it to their customers on someone else's dime--defraying a large chunk of the expense.

However, your comment does raise an interesting proposition. I lament that Ford sold most of its stake in Mazda. Rather than incurring the sole cost, a smaller, lighter, two-seat Mustang might be possible, IF the cost of the development could be shared with a partner like Mazda. The Miata has been/is a great bang for the buck proposition. I would love to see a joint venture between Mazda and Ford on a scaled-down Mustang.

But it wouldn't be a huge investment, there would still be some development work, but you wouldn't have to develop a lot of brand new stuff. Start with the c2 focus chassis, make it awd with rear bias like the previous gen focus RS, throw in the 2.0 and 2.3 they already have, and you're good to go. Yes, you would have to designs a new exterior/interior, but that wouldn't be insanely expensive. Build it in flat rock, from a financial standpoint, that plant is only producing a fraction of it's max capacity, which is terrible from an resource management perspective. But flat rock can only build lower vehicles, like sedans and sports cars. So make this new version there alongside the s650.

 

[Hack]

You don't think Ford should limit themselves to making cars that produce the best ROI--I don't think Ford stockholders would agree with that sentiment. I pointed out, Ford doesn't want to make a huge investment in design, engineering, and facilities to produce a low-cost product line to sell 10K units.

Sorry, but I'm going to pull a @6String on you. Review what you just wrote. You want Ford to make F150 and nothing else? That's the vehicle with the best ROI.

Anyway - I get your point about stockholders, but I think when a car company just focuses on the bottom line their reputation falls and their products get boring. I think Toyota is a good example. I don't like any products that they make. Ford agrees with me - there's no way they made money on the Ford GT. And they sold far fewer than 10,000 per year.

Review what you wrote. You're absolutely right, Toyota didn't make the car you like (GR86). They could not afford to manufacture the product, so they outsourced it. They offered it to their customers on someone else's dime--defraying a large chunk of the expense.

They could have afforded to make a small, sporty car. But I agree with them that the Subaru flat 4 is superior for a sports car to any of the engines that Toyota makes.

However, your comment does raise an interesting proposition. I lament that Ford sold most of its stake in Mazda. Rather than incurring the sole cost, a smaller, lighter, two-seat Mustang might be possible, IF the cost of the development could be shared with a partner like Mazda. The Miata has been/is a great bang for the buck proposition. I would love to see a joint venture between Mazda and Ford on a scaled-down Mustang.

I mostly agree with this. The Miata would be a great product for Ford to share as a smaller and more enjoyable car than what Ford currently offers. I would be somewhat upset if it happened, because I absolutely don't fit in a Miata. I'd love to have one, but it's just sized for smaller people. If they stretched the passenger compartment 2 inches I would be interested. I still think the '86 is a little better product, but if it were a Ford I might buy just because I prefer the Ford brand.

But it wouldn't be a huge investment, there would still be some development work, but you wouldn't have to develop a lot of brand new stuff. Start with the c2 focus chassis, make it awd with rear bias like the previous gen focus RS, throw in the 2.0 and 2.3 they already have, and you're good to go. Yes, you would have to designs a new exterior/interior, but that wouldn't be insanely expensive. Build it in flat rock, from a financial standpoint, that plant is only producing a fraction of it's max capacity, which is terrible from an resource management perspective. But flat rock can only build lower vehicles, like sedans and sports cars. So make this new version there alongside the s650.

I can see where some people would love that. I personally wouldn't buy it. I don't want a FWD or AWD hatch. They are too top heavy to turn well and I also find them boring in a straight line. Yes an AWD vehicle can be fun on those few and far between snow days, but generally it's a yawner. RWD is a lot more enjoyable to drive, especially in the snow and on ice. Free opportunities to practice car control w/o exceeding the speed limit, breaking any laws or paying for a track day don't come often.

 

[6String]

Sorry, but I'm going to pull a @6String on you. Review what you just wrote. You want Ford to make F150 and nothing else? That's the vehicle with the best ROI.

Straw man arguments always seem to start with, "So, what you're saying is..." There is no mention of an F-150 in my post, or a suggestion that Ford should make nothing else. Own them or not, those are your words, not mine.

However, you are right--the F-150 is the best ROI for Ford and has been for decades.

 

[Hack]

Straw man arguments always seem to start with, "So, what you're saying is..." There is no mention of an F-150 in my post, or a suggestion that Ford should make nothing else. Own them or not, those are your words, not mine.

However, you are right--the F-150 is the best ROI for Ford and has been for decades.

True - you said that you believe Ford stockholders would want Ford to only make the car with the best ROI. So I guess you didn't really say it. You just said that someone else would say it.

Either way, I still think Ford did well with the GT. They won Le Mans and got a lot of publicity from the car. The ROI directly from the car was crap, but the ROI in reputation was huge. Mustang is also a good product for them to make. I think that a smaller and sportier car would be a great entry level vehicle to get younger people interested (and some old guys like me would also be interested). If I were in charge the ECO Mustang would be deleted and I would make a right-sized vehicle more appropriate to a 4 cylinder, not throw a 4 banger into a 4,000 lb fatty.

 

[baazooka]

Idk, of course it doesn't look identical to a fox body, that's not what I'm saying. But it's clearly inspired by it, more compact dimensions, more upright roofline like the fox body, with what could be a hatch in the rear. The lack of a large upper grille, even the line on the hood that sweeps down as it runs below the side window is virtually identical to the hood line on the fox body, just done in a modern and more attractive way.

love the platform idea, looks like a fisker though lol

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