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With the new v8 hybrid engine, will it be more expensive and complicated to maintain?

Zent

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the biggest thing that shies me away from electric and hybrid cars are the batteries. Naturally all batteries lose capacity over time and when it comes time to replacing these batteries it can be a matter of thousands!

How are they going to implement it with the 7g gt? To me simple maintenance has always been a factor as to why I've been team mustang for all these years. So I really hope they can find a way to stick to that while also kicking ass!
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zackmd1

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the biggest thing that shies me away from electric and hybrid cars are the batteries. Naturally all batteries lose capacity over time and when it comes time to replacing these batteries it can be a matter of thousands!

How are they going to implement it with the 7g gt? To me simple maintenance has always been a factor as to why I've been team mustang for all these years. So I really hope they can find a way to stick to that while also kicking ass!
Battery degradation hasn't been a problem for YEARS.... Modern day Lithium Ion batteries last longer than the car can be expected to remain on the road. There are Teslas on the road approaching the 10 year mark with over 90% of their capacity remaining. A Model 3 battery pack has a life expectancy of about 500k miles (and that is just to 80% capacity). I know I am talking about BEVs here but the battery chemistry is similar to what is used in modern hybrid packs. Manufacturing defects will always exist but that is what a warranty is for.

IF the S650 has a hybrid V8 powertrain, I would expect it to be easier to maintain than a Gen 3 Coyote. Reason being, that hybrid coyote would likely be an Atkinson cycle engine without the direct injection component of the Gen 3. The elimination of that entire fuel system alone would greatly improve maintainability. Also with a transmission based (electrified 10 speed with the electric motor replacing the torque converter) hybrid setup, some traditional components are typically combined/removed. So instead of a separate alternator and starter for instance it would be just one component that can function as both.

Point I am trying to make is that hybrid does not always mean more complicated and harder to maintain. Personally I am hoping the S650 debuts with hybrid powertrains of both the EB4 and Coyote. Something like the below...

-EB4 Hybrid
-EB4 non hybrid with manual transmission
-Coyote Hybrid
-Coyote non hybrid with manual transmission

The automatics would be hybrid only while the manuals would be non hybrid only.
 

DeluxeStang

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the biggest thing that shies me away from electric and hybrid cars are the batteries. Naturally all batteries lose capacity over time and when it comes time to replacing these batteries it can be a matter of thousands!

How are they going to implement it with the 7g gt? To me simple maintenance has always been a factor as to why I've been team mustang for all these years. So I really hope they can find a way to stick to that while also kicking ass!
I wouldn't be too worried man, hybrid tech was pretty solid from the getgo, and has improved massively in the last 5-10 years. Some of the most reliable cars on sale today are hybrids, the Prius for instance. My family is buying a Maverick next year, and all evidence points to the hybrid being much more reliable than the maverick with the 2.0 eb. Ford makes some of the most reliable hybrids alongside Toyota, it will be fine.
 

Mike Pfeifer

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Most, if not all, manufacturers build in excess battery capacity that is “unused” normally. It’s actually just reserve capacity that can take the place of any degraded capacity. This way, the battery stays at 100% for a longer time before degradation becomes an issue. They may build in an extra 20% or more.
 


Falc'man

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@zackmd1, I think the Atkinson cycle is mainly used for hybrid vehicles that are actually aiming for economy.

@Zent , I'm guessing the V8 hybrid Mustang would have a heavy bias towards maximum power, and only available in high performance premium models above (and not including) the GT. Example GT500 replacement, or thereabouts. They'd squeeze as much as they can out of the 5.0 - possibly aim for 8500rpm, ~600hp, [we're aware Voodoo was pegged back to keep costs down, and we're also aware that the X plain crank set up could have flogged the Voodoo had they invested in it instead of pouring all that effort into Voodoo]. Expect a torque hole below 4000rpm like the Voodoo but the e-motor will make amends down there like it's meant to, plus add another 150-200hp to the top end.

The e-motor is going to be the power adder for the SE models (as well being exclusive to them), and replacement for forced induction. Just my guess.
 

Terlingua

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There are Teslas on the road approaching the 10 year mark with over 90% of their capacity remaining. A Model 3 battery pack has a life expectancy of about 500k miles (and that is just to 80% capacity).
10% capacity loss is a hard pass for myself, and likely a part of why 75% of the population still is not interested in EVs. 20% capacity loss is totally unacceptable. And that's even before addressing the exaggerated false advertised claims regarding range.

But then again, Teslas are ugly AF.
 

zackmd1

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10% capacity loss is a hard pass for myself, and likely a part of why 75% of the population still is not interested in EVs. 20% capacity loss is totally unacceptable. And that's even before addressing the exaggerated false advertised claims regarding range.

But then again, Teslas are ugly AF.
At risk of turning this into another EV debate..... How many daily drivers have you owned past the 10 year mark? Those Teslas with 90% capacity remaining have over 200k miles on them in most cases. Its not about the timeframe but the usage... Battery life is measured in charge cycles (0-100%) meaning a battery charged to 80% and maintained at 80% will last almost indefinitely (longer then what would matter). Draining a battery to 0% and then charging to 100% is what counts as a charge cycle. A partial charge from say 50% to 80% (what the majority of Americans who drive less then 40 miles a day would be charging to) would not count as a full charge cycle and thus extend the TIME period that the battery can last (mileage from the battery is directly tied to charge cycles and drivetrain efficiency and will not change with different charge behavior).

Also, those 10 year old teslas have different battery chemistry then modern Teslas. As I said, the Model 3 battery is designed for 500k miles to 80% (longer then most anyone will be driving that vehicle). Teslas next gen 4160 battery coming next year is designed for 1M miles to 80%.

And another point, ICE vehicles lose efficiency over time as well... Would a 20% decrease in MPG be unacceptable to you because that is normal for an ICE vehicle over the same range/time period.

The majority of the population is operating under outdated information and misinformation about electric vehicles. Current EVs would be a very good fit for 90% of the US population due to lower maintenance costs and better durability. No oil changes, no checking fluids, reduced brake wear, no transmissions to fail, etc... The other 10% that either don't have access to fast charging or are driving more than 400 miles daily is what the next 10 years of EV development and infrastructure build out will solve.

PS: Advertised ranges are ESTIMATES based on ideal conditions just like ICE vehicles. My Model 3 routinely EXCEEDED the advertised range during fair weather. In winter, current EVs do suffer range loss but that is another thing that is being improved upon. You are comparing a tech in its infancy to tech that has existed and been developed for over 100 years... Yes EVs are not for everyone right now, but they will be by the end of the decade...
 

Terlingua

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'Daily Driver'? Living in Texas, you don't want to own any vehicle that can't go 300+ miles on any given weekend. it's a way of life. EVs suk. Teslas especially suk.
 

zackmd1

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'Daily Driver'? Living in Texas, you don't want to own any vehicle that can't go 300+ miles on any given weekend. it's a way of life. EVs suk. Teslas especially suk.
Sooooooo..... You are part of that 10% I mentioned where current EVs don't quite meet the needs of yet.... (FYI the Lucid Air which is in production now can go 520 miles on a charge and a prototype battery developed for a Model S has achieved 751 miles to a charge just recently) And if you believe Chevy's claims ( I know bad word here....) the new EV Silverado EV can go 400+ miles to a charge.

EVs are the future of vehicles... Plain and simple, ICE is over past the end of the decade in terms of new vehicles. You can keep burying your head in the sand if you want but it won't change the outcome...
 

IronG

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Most likely a hybrid Mustang will cost more to maintain. A pure electric will be much cheaper. I am not a fan of EV's mainly because of the ugly interiors (most models) and a lack of real engine exhaust sound (for sporty models). A hybrid V8 Mustang would be ok, but the cost to performance gain needs to be seen first (hopefully no flat screen tv floating in the center dash either!).

We also take a lot of long trips for vacations and extensive travel for sports that some of my kids partake in (many trips are 500 plus miles). Just don't want to deal with searching for charging. If charging was ubiquitous to hotels, it would be less of an issue. The one thing that currently has been proven is that EV's are cheaper to run provided you have home charging, and you use it 90% of the time to charge. I have no doubt that once EV's are the standard, costs for charging will go up, but hopefully they will be cheaper to purchase and more importantly to me, have decent interiors.

For batteries themselves, it will be interesting to see if the trend is to lower the quality of batteries to make the vehicle cheaper. This in turn could make a 500K+ battery a ~200k battery. The logic here is that it seems to be taking a long time for battery tech to improve with enough cost reduction. So in order to make it mainstream and not lose too much range, with a cheaper vehicle, use cheaper batteries. Also, the car companies will need to keep selling cars. If they all can go 1 million miles before needing to be replaced, they will all go out of business at some point (50 years from now?). Expensive models probably will retain the longevity and probably increased range but will cost much more to purchase.

The only current EV model I would entertain a purchase for would be the Lightning. It has some cool features like being able to power your house (redundant for us, but still cool) and the interior looks pretty decent. They still need to get the huge screen to be more integrated into the dash, but it is pretty close. Also, sound is not an issue as it would be for the wife and she wouldn't see it as a performance vehicle. She loves the GT's snarl's and grumbles though.
 

Terlingua

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Sooooooo..... You are part of that 10% I mentioned where current EVs don't quite meet the needs of yet.... (FYI the Lucid Air which is in production now can go 520 miles on a charge and a prototype battery developed for a Model S has achieved 751 miles to a charge just recently) And if you believe Chevy's claims ( I know bad word here....) the new EV Silverado EV can go 400+ miles to a charge.

EVs are the future of vehicles... Plain and simple, ICE is over past the end of the decade in terms of new vehicles. You can keep burying your head in the sand if you want but it won't change the outcome...
Teslas still suk.

But yes, when there's a car under $40K that can go over 400 miles with a charge, I'll have a look. But not before. ...and 10%? Try 70%. (and 'meeting needs' does not equal an auto maker telling me that I drive less than 200 miles per day, so an EV should be fine - I define my needs)
 

Firsttexan

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the biggest thing that shies me away from electric and hybrid cars are the batteries. Naturally all batteries lose capacity over time and when it comes time to replacing these batteries it can be a matter of thousands!

How are they going to implement it with the 7g gt? To me simple maintenance has always been a factor as to why I've been team mustang for all these years. So I really hope they can find a way to stick to that while also kicking ass!
Complexity will bring added cost for sure. Until it becomes so mainstream it's irrelevant. IMO

Hopefully a hybrid will assist in all wheel drive and keep them from installing that insane start/stop tech.
 

Trackaholic

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Anyone think they’ll just take the F150 hybrid design and re-use that?

Also, hybrids don’t need to worry much about battery deg because they don’t rely on the battery for much more than dynamic braking and torque fill. They still use gasoline for range.

Also, the GT350 barely gets 300 miles per tank on the highway, and I’m assuming sold fine in Texas. But again, we are talking hybrids not EV’s. If Ford can keep the weight down and package batteries without messing up cargo space, a hybrid Mustang could be very cool.

-T
 
 




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