With the new v8 hybrid engine, will it be more expensive and complicated to maintain?

[paulb351]

I'm not worried about battery replacement, they come in packs rather than replacing 7,000 AA sized cells!

I do like the sound of Coyote v8 driving rear wheels (i.e. no Atkinson cycle compromises) and a hybrid/battery driving front wheels to improve acceleration times (as has been suggested is the Mustang design direction, nothing proven pure conjecture) and to reduce fuel consumption when running down the highway on light throttle. Same as I like the idea of the Mustang Mach-E being a carbon sink/offset to allow Ford to keep selling those ICE v8 smile generators! Sell more Mach-E to those that want them I say so we can keep our v8's coming off the production line.

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[Dena]

At risk of turning this into another EV debate..... How many daily drivers have you owned past the 10 year mark? Those Teslas with 90% capacity remaining have over 200k miles on them in most cases. Its not about the timeframe but the usage... Battery life is measured in charge cycles (0-100%) meaning a battery charged to 80% and maintained at 80% will last almost indefinitely (longer then what would matter). Draining a battery to 0% and then charging to 100% is what counts as a charge cycle. A partial charge from say 50% to 80% (what the majority of Americans who drive less then 40 miles a day would be charging to) would not count as a full charge cycle and thus extend the TIME period that the battery can last (mileage from the battery is directly tied to charge cycles and drivetrain efficiency and will not change with different charge behavior).

Its actually a bit more complicated than that. Because of the way the chemistry works, putting the last 20% in the battery or extracting the last little bit out of the battery causes damage to the cell. They still use the same basic chemistry but they tweak some of the minor parts of the chemistry to make the cells last longer. I didn't know the details of this until I found a very detailed video from one of the researchers who developed a way of testing the cells to provide a better expected life projection of the cell. It's somewhat technical however I suspect most people will have a much better idea of the progress that is being made in the field. It runs over an hour but if your interested in why your batteries die, it's well worth watching.

 

[Dena]

I'm not worried about battery replacement, they come in packs rather than replacing 7,000 AA sized cells!

Saturday night live had something to say about that!

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/new-mercedes/3021121

 

[REV745DH24]

Battery degradation hasn't been a problem for YEARS.... Modern day Lithium Ion batteries last longer than the car can be expected to remain on the road. There are Teslas on the road approaching the 10 year mark with over 90% of their capacity remaining. A Model 3 battery pack has a life expectancy of about 500k miles (and that is just to 80% capacity). I know I am talking about BEVs here but the battery chemistry is similar to what is used in modern hybrid packs. Manufacturing defects will always exist but that is what a warranty is for.

IF the S650 has a hybrid V8 powertrain, I would expect it to be easier to maintain than a Gen 3 Coyote. Reason being, that hybrid coyote would likely be an Atkinson cycle engine without the direct injection component of the Gen 3. The elimination of that entire fuel system alone would greatly improve maintainability. Also with a transmission based (electrified 10 speed with the electric motor replacing the torque converter) hybrid setup, some traditional components are typically combined/removed. So instead of a separate alternator and starter for instance it would be just one component that can function as both.

Point I am trying to make is that hybrid does not always mean more complicated and harder to maintain. Personally I am hoping the S650 debuts with hybrid powertrains of both the EB4 and Coyote. Something like the below...

-EB4 Hybrid
-EB4 non hybrid with manual transmission
-Coyote Hybrid
-Coyote non hybrid with manual transmission

The automatics would be hybrid only while the manuals would be non hybrid only.

But in case of an accident, we would be easily killed by electric battery explosion?

 

[IFFV68]

Get a manual GT, problem solved. It will likely be pure ICE.

EV Mustang.
Do you feel Lucky, Punk?

 

[Zig]

EV Mustang.
Do you feel Lucky, Punk?

keep everything the current ice gt/dh is (everything) add small supplemental electric (shudder) motors to the front hubs (they work as normal even during failed state) use a small charge retention battery (drive battery for the electric hubs - maybe in the spare tire wheel well since we don’t get a tire) throw in a couple supercaps turn the auto stop start button into an optional fwd/awd electric assist and we could potentially have some fun. If we got creative enough we might even get rid of the alternator (drag) and replace it with [peltier] connections in the cats (talk about warming the planet nothing like heat to warm the spot) exhaust etc. but then it would most likely exceed the price range found to be most affordable for the ….

 

[Zig]

Sorry, forgot to answer the question in the title - yes

 

[roadpilot]

keep everything the current ice gt/dh is (everything) add small supplemental electric (shudder) motors to the front hubs (they work as normal even during failed state) use a small charge retention battery (drive battery for the electric hubs - maybe in the spare tire wheel well since we don’t get a tire) throw in a couple supercaps turn the auto stop start button into an optional fwd/awd electric assist and we could potentially have some fun. If we got creative enough we might even get rid of the alternator (drag) and replace it with [peltier] connections in the cats (talk about warming the planet nothing like heat to warm the spot) exhaust etc. but then it would most likely exceed the price range found to be most affordable for the ….

Yup. You forgot "Add $20K to the price of the vehicle" and "Add more points of failure while increasing repair and maintenance costs".

 

[Zig]

Yup. You forgot "Add $20K to the price of the vehicle" and "Add more points of failure while increasing repair and maintenance costs".

But then it would most likely. … (that’s where them incentives come in handy how much do them Evs get?). The repair and maintenance not to mention special equipment and software requirements are self perpetuating..

 

[roadpilot]

But then it would most likely. … (that’s where them incentives come in handy how much do them Evs get?). The repair and maintenance not to mention special equipment and software requirements are self perpetuating..

Incentives are for BEVs, not hybrids. And many of those incentives are far less $ than they used to be.

Oh, and if you think the S650 is porky now, add a few hundred more pounds.

 

[Zig]

Incentives are for BEVs, not hybrids. And many of those incentives are far less $ than they used to be.

Oh, and if you think the S650 is porky now, add a few hundred more pounds.

But isn’t that what some keep wanting to do with a larger power plant? And why only for bev, ice has needs too.

 

[roadpilot]

And why only for bev, ice has needs too.

Absolutely NO vehicle should be eligible for a taxpayer funded government subsidy. Let the product succeed or fail on its own merits.

 

[Karguy]

Absolutely NO vehicle should be eligible for a taxpayer funded government subsidy. Let the product succeed or fail on its own merits.

Yes I am so tired of subsidizing the electric junk…Let the rich pay for their own crap instead of putting carbon and other BS taxes and other legislation on ICE powered vehicles…If electric cars where so great and so green which they are not people would buy them but they cant even give them away after the idiots with more money than sense which is less than 10% of the adult population bought them…I do hate Teslas but have nothing against a V8 with a hybrid flywheel and small battery to store some energy from braking to give it more boost acceleration like Ferrari , Mercedes , BMW and soon Porsche will do…AWD to actually to all that power down would be great too

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