S650 production ending in 2028 - according to new union contract

[Dave2013M3]

That is beginning to change. The mood toward EV's is slowing and souring.

Agreed, however a lot of it is the people who wanted an electric vehicle already got one. When you consider that almost 25% of the people who get an EV rescind back to an ICE vehicle or a hybrid

Sponsored

 

[JAL]

That car needs optional AWD badly...

I hope this never happens, then it just becomes an American Audi. I guess if it's optional it can perhaps keep the Mustang afloat longer, is this what you mean?

 

[9secondko]

That is beginning to change. The mood toward EV's is slowing and souring.

even the manufacturers are souring on EVs.

the expense, byproducts, and infrastructure are extremely problematic.

OEMs are making huge strides in hydrogen, which is a win all the way around.

It’s also a myth thst EVs are somehow better for the environment. Those batteries mean the loss of elements thst had been mined to produce them (a process that also contaminates thr armosphere). And when the car has lived its life, where does that battery go? So far, at a maximum in only some parts of the world, only 5% are recycled. That’s a lot of hazardous material to end up in landfills. And these batteries can explode if disassembled incorrectly. And if those old batteries break snd leak?

Meanwhile hydrogen offers all the benefits of the tried and true ICE setup with none of the pollution.

It’s ok to have EVs. But there really needs to be a well rounded infrastructure to support the circle of EV life. Everyone wants to push them on us, but there is very little in the way of actual infrastructure.

these problems need to be solved before such a massive push.

yet here is another solution that has none of those drawbacks (though it has its own challenges currently in quickly creating massive amounts of fuel) but has no support from the government. Maybe EVs have the business ties already established to profit politicians. Other than that, it’s pretty strange stuff.

 

[Combinepilot]

Little secret … the companies want EVs….Ford WANTS to make/sell EVs… they are pressuring the GOVT… to pressure the people.
The companies directly control this. They want you to believe that the government is forcing them… that’s not the case… they’re in control.

That's a big secret, any chance you could name drop your source?

 

[Q6543]

That's a big secret, any chance you could name drop your source?

sure, Mary barra, jim Farley…. Listen to the last few quarterly conference calls.

 

[Arthonon]

Posting mostly for humor, but there are some good observations here as well:

 

[SAL-E]

even the manufacturers are souring on EVs.

the expense, byproducts, and infrastructure are extremely problematic.

OEMs are making huge strides in hydrogen, which is a win all the way around.

It’s also a myth thst EVs are somehow better for the environment. Those batteries mean the loss of elements thst had been mined to produce them (a process that also contaminates thr armosphere). And when the car has lived its life, where does that battery go? So far, at a maximum in only some parts of the world, only 5% are recycled. That’s a lot of hazardous material to end up in landfills. And these batteries can explode if disassembled incorrectly. And if those old batteries break snd leak?

Meanwhile hydrogen offers all the benefits of the tried and true ICE setup with none of the pollution.

It’s ok to have EVs. But there really needs to be a well rounded infrastructure to support the circle of EV life. Everyone wants to push them on us, but there is very little in the way of actual infrastructure.

these problems need to be solved before such a massive push.

yet here is another solution that has none of those drawbacks (though it has its own challenges currently in quickly creating massive amounts of fuel) but has no support from the government. Maybe EVs have the business ties already established to profit politicians. Other than that, it’s pretty strange stuff.

Making hydrogen fuel is very energy intensive and costly. Ever wonder why hydrogen has not already taken off if it is so good?

Cost and lack of infrastructure.

 

[Zig]

Cost and lack of infrastructure.

Oddly, the same reasons Evs aren't flying off the shelves

 

[9secondko]

Making hydrogen fuel is very energy intensive and costly. Ever wonder why hydrogen has not already taken off if it is so good?

Cost and lack of infrastructure.

Making hydrogen fuel is very energy intensive and costly. Ever wonder why hydrogen has not already taken off if it is so good?

Cost and lack of infrastructure.

Ask toyota, bmw, Hyundai, Land Rover, Honda, and others. It’s only recently been a serious consideration, though bmw has been playing around with the concept for some time.

I’ve already mentioned the difficulty in making massive amounts of fuel quickly, so that’s nothing new added to the conversation. But that’s solvable . It takes R&D and the time to get it right - just like electric, which has been a thing for a very very long time, but only recently became viable And the infrastructure still isn’t there.

With hydrogen, it’s one issue to solve. One. you don’t even have to build hydrogen fuel stations. People can go to their regular gas station that’s had hydrogen equipment added and fuel up. Companies have done this already on a smaller scale.all it takes is a little federal help to include hydrogen where gas is sold. Eventually, all the gas pumps can be retrofitted to hydrogen stations Right now, hydrogen is an expensive fuel. Even though it’s much more efficient than gas, the ROI is still more expensive than gas. That’s where economies of scale come in and hydrogen needs a big push to get there.

Its High time the governments that love to meddle in the private sector do so in a positive way, such as allocating resources and helps to companies pursuing hydrogen.

 

[Zig]

Ask toyota, bmw, Hyundai, Land Rover, Honda, and others. It’s only recently been a serious consideration, though bmw has been playing around with the concept for some time.

I’ve already mentioned the difficulty in making massive amounts of fuel quickly, so that’s nothing new added to the conversation. But that’s solvable . It takes R&D and the time to get it right - just like electric, which has been a thing for a very very long time, but only recently became viable And the infrastructure still isn’t there.

With hydrogen, it’s one issue to solve. One. you don’t even have to build hydrogen fuel stations. People can go to their regular gas station that’s had hydrogen equipment added and fuel up. Companies have done this already on a smaller scale.all it takes is a little federal help to include hydrogen where gas is sold. Eventually, all the gas pumps can be retrofitted to hydrogen stations Right now, hydrogen is an expensive fuel. Even though it’s much more efficient than gas, the ROI is still more expensive than gas. That’s where economies of scale come in and hydrogen needs a big push to get there.

Its High time the governments that love to meddle in the private sector do so in a positive way, such as allocating resources and helps to companies pursuing hydrogen.

Don’t forget the by-product, it’s ah ….

 

[SAL-E]

With hydrogen, it’s one issue to solve. One. you don’t even have to build hydrogen fuel stations. People can go to their regular gas station that’s had hydrogen equipment added and fuel up. Companies have done this already on a smaller scale.all it takes is a little federal help to include hydrogen where gas is sold.

Yep... you live in California. Try finding hydrogen fuel in other states.

BTW... I agree with you that hydrogen is a good alternative if the ability to mass produce it doesn't make the pollution worse. Loooong way to go...

 

[marcekb]

Yep... you live in California. Try finding hydrogen fuel in other states.

BTW... I agree with you that hydrogen is a good alternative if the ability to mass produce it doesn't make the pollution worse. Loooong way to go...

I'm not sure this is a question of the impact hydrogen production has on the environment. It's production won't make pollution worse than fossil fuels or electric. And it's byproduct is obviously good.

Not unlike battery tech that had to be developed and made cheaper, what's needed for hydrogen is miniaturizing the technology and making that tech less expensive. If governments invested as much in this tech as they have in electric, this would already be done, without all the additional impact on the environment that producing batteries create, nevermind simpler impacts like the weight of cars (EVs are significantly heavier).

 

[Q6543]

The decisions have already been made, we’re going nuclear / EV.
And the mustang going full EV will be iconic American symbolism

the horse, which was replaced by combustion, now being powered by pure electricity….I can see the slick ad campaigns now.

 

[9secondko]

Yep... you live in California. Try finding hydrogen fuel in other states.

BTW... I agree with you that hydrogen is a good alternative if the ability to mass produce it doesn't make the pollution worse. Loooong way to go...

That’s kind of the point. Hydrogen needs a push to go everywhere. Not even in just the USA.

it’s more than a viable technology. It’s quite an impressive answer to the drawback of both electric and fossil fuel.

 

[9secondko]

The decisions have already been made, we’re going nuclear / EV.
And the mustang going full EV will be iconic American symbolism

the horse, which was replaced by combustion, now being powered by pure electricity….I can see the slick ad campaigns now.

Already done with Mach E.
The ad campaign kinda wasn’t that great.

the nuclear conversation doesn’t really fit in the scope of this conversation which is about powering vehicles - unless you’ve discovered a nuclear powered car/truck/suv - no, I don’t mean the old Ford Nucleon concept.

or if you meant using nuclear to process the electric power, in which case that argument doesn’t suit your case, since nuclear power can be used to compress hydrogen as well. So best to stick with the scope of the conversation.

edit: looks like the US government and nuclear plants are reading this thread. LOL

https://www.reuters.com/sustainabil...clude-industry-hydrogen-tax-break-2023-12-06/

moving on, the Mustang gets to keep its iconic “voice” with hydrogen, whereas electric silenced it. That’s a fairly big deal in and of itself. Not everyone is thrilled with the vacuum cleaner sound of the electric dodge charger concept.

Ford has already researched and patented a turbocharged hydrogen engine. Probably early days stuff. But we have another 4 years to go so ther is time to develop the infrastructure and engine tech further.

Sponsored