Is 486hp enough?? Let’s discuss

[Hack]

My personal belief is that they capped DH at 500hp to leave room for another NA hipo variant, hopefully a Boss.

I hope you are right. Ford is closing the Romeo engine plant AFAIK, but hopefully that just means the engines will be produced somewhere else. Since the Raptor is getting a blown V8, someone will still be making the higher HP, limited production engines.

Let’s not forget, the S550’s last thing it needed was a bunch more power

The steering and interior quality were bigger issues than anything to do with power

So take the forum bench racer glasses off and look at things at face value

More power
Better quality consistency
Papa John’s

If you want a BMW...

Frankly I think everything was great in the S550. When they put superior engines in the car like the Voodoo, it won tons of awards.

All you HP lovers will be blown away when the EVs drop.
MUSTANG GT-E
SHELB-E

I'm sure they'll be in the teens easily.

Don't care at all about EV SUVs or their 1/4 mile times.

Not happening ever. The average cost of a new car in the US now is more than a base GT. It is still a value for a soon to be 480HP car. But ask if you would pay $5/$10K more to drop 200/400 lbs what do you think most people would say?

A smaller, lighter vehicle would cost a little more to design, but production would be cheaper. Everything is cheaper in a lighter vehicle - brakes, wheels, tires, bearings, transmissions, engines... Now, I agree exotic materials are out, but an all-steel small V8 RWD car can weigh significantly less than 3,800 lbs. If a bunch of other stuff like electric or hybrid or AWD was added it probably would have to weigh more, though.

I would pay more for a car if the package was right. If they changed the Mustang into a last-gen Camaro I wouldn't be very interested, but if the car was easy to live with and performed really well, I would say yes. But for $70K or $80K, a car will have to be really, really good for me to buy. The interior and quality of fitment could even be poor if it performed well enough. I really don't care much at all about that stuff anyway.

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[Q6543]

I wasn't talking about SUVs OR 1/4 times.

I was talking about HP and coupes.
And our 100% already decided future that none of us can stop.

 

[ssmith891]

How about now…

DH - 500 HP
Boss 307 - 550 HP
GT 350 - 600HP
Cobra 444 - 700 HP
GT500 - 900 HP (supercharged)

Now that sounds like a dream come true lol

 

[Nightmonkey]

Not happening ever. The average cost of a new car in the US now is more than a base GT. It is still a value for a soon to be 480HP car. But ask if you would pay $5/$10K more to drop 200/400 lbs what do you think most people would say?

As I said, than it's no longer a bread and butter car.
The production volume would certainly decrease.

Over here, the S550 is also only offered as a PP with most option already in.
Base is not available here at all.

 

[1958cyclist]

Enough for what is what I'd ask? How many folks "regularly" fully utilize what they already have? I track my car a several times a year and never found myself asking...gee I wonder how more horsepower would help my driving accumen...instead, I usually find myself saying, "boy brother...you better find a way to get more seat time!"

 

[Garfy]

Over 600k Challenger’s sold since 2008 isn’t anything to sneeze at. I hope the ICE Mustang survives longer than the S650, but we’ll see.

True, but Mustangs have sold over 1.3 million in the same period.

 

[Garfy]

I hope you are right. Ford is closing the Romeo engine plant AFAIK, but hopefully that just means the engines will be produced somewhere else. Since the Raptor is getting a blown V8, someone will still be making the higher HP, limited production engines.



If you want a BMW...

Frankly I think everything was great in the S550. When they put superior engines in the car like the Voodoo, it won tons of awards.



Don't care at all about EV SUVs or their 1/4 mile times.



A smaller, lighter vehicle would cost a little more to design, but production would be cheaper. Everything is cheaper in a lighter vehicle - brakes, wheels, tires, bearings, transmissions, engines... Now, I agree exotic materials are out, but an all-steel small V8 RWD car can weigh significantly less than 3,800 lbs. If a bunch of other stuff like electric or hybrid or AWD was added it probably would have to weigh more, though.

I would pay more for a car if the package was right. If they changed the Mustang into a last-gen Camaro I wouldn't be very interested, but if the car was easy to live with and performed really well, I would say yes. But for $70K or $80K, a car will have to be really, really good for me to buy. The interior and quality of fitment could even be poor if it performed well enough. I really don't care much at all about that stuff anyway.

I remember my '71 Mach 1 that wasn't a "compact" by any means and probably close to the size of the current S550/650 yet it only weighed 3200 lbs. and was all steel. The best part was it only cost $3500 new (I know, convert it to today's dollars and it's not really that cheap.)

 

[OppoLock]

I remember my '71 Mach 1 that wasn't a "compact" by any means and probably close to the size of the current S550/650 yet it only weighed 3200 lbs. and was all steel. The best part was it only cost $3500 new (I know, convert it to today's dollars and it's not really that cheap.)

Everything was light when your arms and face were the crumple zones lol

 

[RocketGuy3]

People have been disappointed? Man, the reasons to not engage in speculative debates on forums just keep growing for me as I get older...

486 is actually more than I expected out of the "regular" GT's 5.0. The 500 in the Dark Horse is pretty reasonable, and I think basically what we were told (or strongly hinted) it would be at the media reveal event a while back.

It's just a shit flinging context at this point. How much power do you really need in a $40K pony car for the road? Granted, if the aftermarket scene takes as much of a beating as it sounds like it might, that number may be slightly more disappointing, but still a significant bump over last gen.

 

[Baldilocks]

I remember my '71 Mach 1 that wasn't a "compact" by any means and probably close to the size of the current S550/650 yet it only weighed 3200 lbs. and was all steel. The best part was it only cost $3500 new (I know, convert it to today's dollars and it's not really that cheap.)

Only about $25,000 in today's dollars.

 

[Grintch]

So how much heavier is the S650?
How much more does the S650 cost?

That drives how much HP it should have.
I expect 5% heavier (~200 lbs), so 460 -> 483 hp just to maintain the power to weight.

But the price has gone up on top of that, and I expect more expensive sporty cars to have MORE performance. So my 2015 GT PP had 435 hp, and cost me $32K. I am betting a S650 GT will be hard to get under $50K, roughly 1.5 the cost. So it should have 435 x 1.5 = 650 hp (ignoring the weight growth).

As you can imagine the $60K+ Dark Horse with 500 hp doesn't impress me. I wasn't a big fan of the Mach 1 either. In both cases you seemed to be paying close to GT350 prices without the heritage and performance and specialness of a Shelby. If GM didn't put incompetent stylists on the Camaro, making it uglier in the last two refreshes (2018 and 2020), I would probably be in a SS 1LE now.

 

[zstanny]

Huntsville, AL? You could've gotten a deal on my 1LE...but it's gone now

So how much heavier is the S650?
How much more does the S650 cost?

That drives how much HP it should have.
I expect 5% heavier (~200 lbs), so 460 -> 483 hp just to maintain the power to weight.

But the price has gone up on top of that, and I expect more expensive sporty cars to have MORE performance. So my 2015 GT PP had 435 hp, and cost me $32K. I am betting a S650 GT will be hard to get under $50K, roughly 1.5 the cost. So it should have 435 x 1.5 = 650 hp (ignoring the weight growth).

As you can imagine the $60K+ Dark Horse with 500 hp doesn't impress me. I wasn't a big fan of the Mach 1 either. In both cases you seemed to be paying close to GT350 prices without the heritage and performance and specialness of a Shelby. If GM didn't put incompetent stylists on the Camaro, making it uglier in the last two refreshes (2018 and 2020), I would probably be in a SS 1LE now.

 

[93-Oct Mayne]

But the price has gone up on top of that, and I expect more expensive sporty cars to have MORE performance. So my 2015 GT PP had 435 hp, and cost me $32K. I am betting a S650 GT will be hard to get under $50K, roughly 1.5 the cost. So it should have 435 x 1.5 = 650 hp (ignoring the weight growth).

The base 2015 GT MSRP was $32K, without the PP. The 2022 GT MSRPs at 38K. The 2024 will probably MSRP at $41K. That's 28% in 9 model years and no more base calculator screen

 

[Genxer]

HP has been climbing nicely in the GT in this generation but the torque, not so much. It’s just a product of having a 5.0 displacement. Now, a gob more torque would be exciting but I would be gobsmacked if Ford decided to increase displacement, considering where their competitors are headed. That would be one method. Another option is F.I. I’ve thought that Ford should develop a twin turbo V6 for the Mustang. It could be a beast. But then, it might only be a stop on the way to the inevitable EV powertrain with the way things are going (I’m not a fan of EVs). If Ford can manage to keep internal combustion around, I think F.I. with smaller displacement will have to be in play, unless someone invents a way to significantly increase efficiency of the I.C.E. Writing is on the wall.

 

[RocketGuy3]

I'll reiterate that the power numbers are just getting silly these days... It's unusable on the street in most situations, and I know most buyers don't go to the track. And in a time when ICE cars are slowly getting neutered, and often LOSING power between generations, it's pretty hard to complain about a 7-8% bump in an already stupid-powerful NA V8.

I don’t need a bigger horse, I need a faster horse. 420hp is plenty if they can trim some fat out of it, but I havent heard it will be any lighter

Not trying to pick on you, but people say this every time a new sports car is revealed, and every time the answer is the same. The [pretty incredible] standard safety features that are responsible for the majority of modern weight gains aren't going anywhere. But you always have the option to strip the car yourself of seats, sound deadening, luxury amenities... Hell, it might even be legal to strip some of the safety features you don't care about, especially if it's a track car.

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