Is 486hp enough?? Let’s discuss

[RocketGuy3]

The best alternative in my opinion is 2015-2017 Mustang GT + mods or GT350. Either can be purchased in quite good condition for probably at least $20k less, and up to $40 or maybe even $50K less, depending on the price of new. A few year old 1LE SS Camaro wouldn't be as good, but it would also be a lot cheaper than a new DH as well. Yes neither will be as good, but they will be comparable and much more reasonable in price. But the GT and DH are great cars to purchase as well. With a brand new car financing and warranty make ownership worry free.

C7 Corvette could also be an acceptable alternative for shorter people. I think the C7 was a little too porky, but compared to a Mustang it's light.

I suppose that's fair enough, but I was assuming we were talking exclusively about new cars for the purposes of the argument I was making. (I highly doubt you'll be able to get a 2015+ GT in halfway decent condition for $40K less than a comparably equipped 2024, though. Let alone $50K. I think $30K is the most ambitious number I can see happening, and even that would probably require the used market to settle down further, and some pretty high new MSRPs)

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[Sig556]

I'm good with the current HP figure or what ever it may be.
What I am impressed with is the new engine has a STEEL OIL PAN. Surprise, Suprise. Finally Ford corrected one of the biggest failures of the past

 

[BreadBurner]

I'm good with the current HP figure or what ever it may be.
What I am impressed with is the new engine has a STEEL OIL PAN. Surprise, Suprise. Finally Ford corrected one of the biggest failures of the past

what issues did the plastic oil pan cause for the Mustang and what year were they produced for the car? 2018?

 

[Sig556]

what issues did the plastic oil pan cause for the Mustang and what year were they produced for the car? 2018?

I do not know of any issues except that Old Guys like steel oil pans. Let us say OLD SCHOOL. The steel pan seems more durable to us old guys. I believe you are correct as my 2015 had a steel pan and my 2018 had a plastic pan.

 

[BreadBurner]

I do not know of any issues except that Old Guys like steel oil pans. Let us say OLD SCHOOL. The steel pan seems more durable to us old guys. I believe you are correct as my 2015 had a steel pan and my 2018 had a plastic pan.

understood. thank you for clarifying

 

[Hack]

I suppose that's fair enough, but I was assuming we were talking exclusively about new cars for the purposes of the argument I was making. (I highly doubt you'll be able to get a 2015+ GT in halfway decent condition for $40K less than a comparably equipped 2024, though. Let alone $50K. I think $30K is the most ambitious number I can see happening, and even that would probably require the used market to settle down further, and some pretty high new MSRPs)

If you can get a used Mustang GT for $30k and the new Mustang can cost $70K, I think it's possible. But possibly used Mustangs aren't that cheap. You can also buy a lower optioned new GT and I'm sure it will be in the upper 30s or lower 40s. Most GT350s are in the 50s and higher, so you definitely won't save more than $20k on one of them (depending on what the new stuff costs). I paid $27K for my 2017 GT PP1 in 2020, but that was before prices went crazy. They are slowly coming back down somewhat.

I have to admit that the time I spent on mods is a consideration for me. Now that I have oil coolers and pumps set up for the transmission and rear diff, I'm less inclined to sell because I don't want to start over modding something new.

what issues did the plastic oil pan cause for the Mustang and what year were they produced for the car? 2018?

I don't think there will be issues when the cars are new. The only issues I've heard of were when people replaced the Ford drain plug with something aftermarket. I had a plastic pan in my GT350 and it seemed fine. I think all of them had it. I'm not sure about the regular GTs. My 2017 has a steel pan. I assume over time the plastic will heat age and get weaker, but steel pans can rust, so who knows? Cast aluminum would be great, but Ford probably wouldn't go that way.

 

[thePill]

Engine technology is no different than styling and exterior design, it is a direct reflection of the technology of the time.

The Coyote is a legend and it was a contender right out of the gate in 2011. We thought it was perfect but tuning and testing would show us there was A LOT left on the table. Crane and the AM had proved that there was even more with cams and fuel delivery in general…

…and that has been the apparent focus since offering Direct Injection in 2017. The DI system and TiVCT was working incredibly BUT, another issue arose almost immediately…

…the Coyote needed more oxygen. A base GT’s 480hp, the GTP at 486hp and the DK at 500 overshot media expectations. 480/486 was more in line with “outrageous guesses” many believed was far too over indulging.

thePill thought 469hp and 420tq would have been good for the first year. Since engine and design rarely upgrade the same model year, why not? In the old days you could shorten the runners and you can get 420tq for sure…

But 480hp and 486hp right out of the gate suggest they may have finally got the Coyote breathing properly without Forced Induction. If they are achieving easy gains, the entire process of squeezing out a little bit more every year or so, is very likely.

 

[RocketGuy3]

If you can get a used Mustang GT for $30k and the new Mustang can cost $70K, I think it's possible. But possibly used Mustangs aren't that cheap. You can also buy a lower optioned new GT and I'm sure it will be in the upper 30s or lower 40s. Most GT350s are in the 50s and higher, so you definitely won't save more than $20k on one of them (depending on what the new stuff costs). I paid $27K for my 2017 GT PP1 in 2020, but that was before prices went crazy. They are slowly coming back down somewhat.

I think it's unlikely even a fully equipped Dark Horse will cost $70K, but in any case, that's why I said "comparably equipped". Even a base, stripper 2024 Mustang GT will likely have more features, inside and out, and better performance in a straight line AND on a track than even a fully loaded [and unmodified] 2015-2017 Mustang GT.

 

[zstanny]

I think the most expensive dark horse you can get (without carbon fiber wheel option) will be 73-74K. That would be blue ember(extra charge for the color and mandatory appearance package), automatic, handling package.

The most expensive M1 you could’ve specd was 69K and some change. Don’t see why a new model year AND a new gen, with newer tech, wouldn’t be a few K more. Well, only argument is that the dark horse isn’t a legacy spec like M1, boss, etc. I’ll be pretty ecstatic if I’m wrong though.

I think it's unlikely even a fully equipped Dark Horse will cost $70K, but in any case, that's why I said "comparably equipped". Even a base, stripper 2024 Mustang GT will likely have more features, inside and out, and better performance in a straight line AND on a track than even a fully loaded [and unmodified] 2015-2017 Mustang GT.

 

[Hack]

I think it's unlikely even a fully equipped Dark Horse will cost $70K, but in any case, that's why I said "comparably equipped". Even a base, stripper 2024 Mustang GT will likely have more features, inside and out, and better performance in a straight line AND on a track than even a fully loaded [and unmodified] 2015-2017 Mustang GT.

We will see on costs. You can get a Mach 1 close to $70K, so I'd be surprised if a DH can't get that high.

Yes I agree a stripper 2024 GT will have more features and more performance than an unmodified 2017 or earlier GT. And the cost difference - we don't know how much a person will have to pay for those features and the 60 HP yet. Probably at least $10k.

I think the most expensive dark horse you can get (without carbon fiber wheel option) will be 73-74K. That would be blue ember(extra charge for the color and mandatory appearance package), automatic, handling package.

The most expensive M1 you could’ve specd was 69K and some change. Don’t see why a new model year AND a new gen, with newer tech, wouldn’t be a few K more. Well, only argument is that the dark horse isn’t a legacy spec like M1, boss, etc. I’ll be pretty ecstatic if I’m wrong though.

I would want the CF wheels. Anyway, I think you are correct that it will be possible and maybe even easy to get the DH above $70k MSRP.

 

[young at heart]

Don’t forget the good ol’ ADM, especially in the beginning.

 

[Evo1986]

Bottom line is, that both models, the GT and DH will be more expensive than the S550. That is absolutely fine for me considering the currently economic climate and inflation (and the better total package of the car of course). The question will be how much we need to pay as add-on.

For Europe I think the S650 GT (European models will get the highest modification right away unlike in the states where you can choose between GT and GTP) will be at the price range of the current Mach 1 which is around 65K.

The DH will be most probably 10K more.

 

[RocketGuy3]

We will see on costs. You can get a Mach 1 close to $70K, so I'd be surprised if a DH can't get that high.

Yes I agree a stripper 2024 GT will have more features and more performance than an unmodified 2017 or earlier GT. And the cost difference - we don't know how much a person will have to pay for those features and the 60 HP yet. Probably at least $10k.

You could be right about the DH. My thinking was that the Mach 1 is a "classic" Mustang trim, whereas the Dark Horse is a whole new trim/branding, so they might not ask as much, especially considering it's a launch model, and they usually save the higher priced trims for at least a little bit later.

Either way, the main point was that you can't compare a brand new gen, fully loaded, top-trim model price to that of any used GT from 7-9 years ago.

 

[Hack]

You could be right about the DH. My thinking was that the Mach 1 is a "classic" Mustang trim, whereas the Dark Horse is a whole new trim/branding, so they might not ask as much, especially considering it's a launch model, and they usually save the higher priced trims for at least a little bit later.

Either way, the main point was that you can't compare a brand new gen, fully loaded, top-trim model price to that of any used GT from 7-9 years ago.

I agree sometimes they start a new model with a lower price and then increase it - like the first year GT350 was available as a base for less than $50K.

When I decide whether to buy a car, I always compare it to the other available options, including keeping what I have. When I considered the GT350 in 2016, I was comparing it to my base 2015 GT. The GT cost about $32K if I remember correctly. And the GT350 was just under $60K with the option I wanted. The GT350 had a unique engine, awesome brakes, port fuel injection, made 100 HP more than the GT, had a better transmission and much better suspension tuning. On the other hand, the 2015 GT had crappy gearing compared to the 2011 Brembo GT I owned previously, which made it seem slow. The 2015 did ride much better, but I found it very boring. I should have never bought that 2015 GT. It was a poor choice on my part. I should have at least gotten the PP1 option.

Having said all that, the engine of the GT350 was the main attraction for me and IMO it was worth it. I loved the car and owned it for 3.5 years, which for me is a long time. I decided to try something different after that and bought a Corvette. After a year I was done with that, but new GT350s cost more then and I wasn't ready to buy. Since then, GT350s have gone up more than down and I still don't see them quite worth the money to me.

One thing I found is I can "get by" with less power and a slightly slower car. The engine isn't as great, but it's probably more reliable and it's certainly cheaper to replace. I had to modify my GT350 tech pack for track use and I did the same with my GT. On track the GT isn't nearly as good, but it's still a blast to drive and it's fast enough for me to get enjoyment from it.

If I won't pay $50k for a used GT350, I probably won't pay $70k for a DH that makes less power and probably won't have the same features. I've learned from past experience that a base GT is definitely not for me. I prefer to avoid direct injection if I can. Electronic braking has a bad rep so far but maybe Ford will implement it really well. I'm also worried about the dearth of physical controls in the new car.

We will see when the reviews come out.

 

[Shelbeast]

I'm 100% ok with 500hp for the Dark Horse and 486hp for the GT, Ford is probably at the limit of what they can do within emissions requirements, and I think Ford Performance or the tuning community is going to be the ones to get the impressive numbers, FP mainly because they can say "Off-road use only"

To me, it's about PPHP. Price per HP. The dark horse approaching 2016/2020 GT350 HP and price. Not really a great gain and smiles per gallon at the price. Not to mention the 2015GT vs. 2024GT. Performance has increased, but not by 20K....ish.

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