Ezra Dyer: Mustang Is a Vibe.... It's an Attitude, Not a Format.

[OppoLock]

My brother in law just bought a Mach E and when he brought it over I picked his brain as to what he thought about it being called a Mustang. He personally didn't care. He was looking for an EV and is a Ford guy so he felt comfortable staying within the brand and couldn't find an F150 lightning. Admittedly I did not tell him I'm on a forum discussing why the name is a mistake. In his case it was the Ford brand familiarity and powertrain that made the sale.

It was a MachE4 meaning it has AWD, 260 something horsepower and 460 lb/ft of torque. He let me drive so I could experience an EV, my first. It's a nice quiet CUV with decent power. I floored it from a slow roll and the instantaneous torque was noticeable. I imagine the GT would be better at making an impression. Maybe I'd need to really wring this thing out but I wasn't able to draw a comparison to the two door Mustangs I've driven. Anyways, I found the Mach E to be a nice car but similar to the car only in name.

I turo'd a Mach-E for five days. It's a great vehicle. The quality was so nice it didn't feel like a Ford. Wouldn't buy one over other EV options on the market though.

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[IPOGT]

My brother in law just bought a Mach E and when he brought it over I picked his brain as to what he thought about it being called a Mustang. He personally didn't care. He was looking for an EV and is a Ford guy so he felt comfortable staying within the brand and couldn't find an F150 lightning. Admittedly I did not tell him I'm on a forum discussing why the name is a mistake. In his case it was the Ford brand familiarity and powertrain that made the sale.

It was a MachE4 meaning it has AWD, 260 something horsepower and 460 lb/ft of torque. He let me drive so I could experience an EV, my first. It's a nice quiet CUV with decent power. I floored it from a slow roll and the instantaneous torque was noticeable. I imagine the GT would be better at making an impression. Maybe I'd need to really wring this thing out but I wasn't able to draw a comparison to the two door Mustangs I've driven. Anyways, I found the Mach E to be a nice car but similar to the car only in name.

I can see having one along with the REAL Mustang but for everyday driving.

 

[9secondko]

My brother in law just bought a Mach E and when he brought it over I picked his brain as to what he thought about it being called a Mustang. He personally didn't care. He was looking for an EV and is a Ford guy so he felt comfortable staying within the brand and couldn't find an F150 lightning. Admittedly I did not tell him I'm on a forum discussing why the name is a mistake. In his case it was the Ford brand familiarity and powertrain that made the sale.

It was a MachE4 meaning it has AWD, 260 something horsepower and 460 lb/ft of torque. He let me drive so I could experience an EV, my first. It's a nice quiet CUV with decent power. I floored it from a slow roll and the instantaneous torque was noticeable. I imagine the GT would be better at making an impression. Maybe I'd need to really wring this thing out but I wasn't able to draw a comparison to the two door Mustangs I've driven. Anyways, I found the Mach E to be a nice car but similar to the car only in name.

Pretty much the consensus on the Mach E: Not a Mustang, but still a nice and capable EV SUV.

 

[Petter]

By that logic every Cayenne, X5, Urus and Purosangue is a Mustang too.

None of these are made by Ford, who owns the Mustang brand ...

 

[Petter]

Taillights don't make it a Mustang.

It's more than that ...
https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/th...esting-with-current-model.156168/post-3184311

 

[Stam616]

I thought I’d write a response to this article. Here it goes.

Mustang is Definitely a Format- Not a Vibe





Times are changing, technology marches on and moves ahead into the future. Admirers of the Ford Mustang need to move forward as well, just not in the way some out there think. Mustang is a lifestyle, it’s a passion, and there’s also a very real formula for its success for almost 60 years.



First the styling, the long hood and short deck, the bucket seats, the interior as well as exterior styling with both European and American design cues. The V8 power drawing the performance crowd while smaller displacement engines delight those who seek style and lower insurance premiums over raw power. These cars have evolved over the years with the current generation providing V8’s and lesser engines that are in many cases more powerful than the engines from the past. They truly give us a glimpse into a world of possibilities for fun and excitement that we couldn’t enjoy in any other car.



As to lifestyle, these cars represent a freedom of expression and sense of adventure. You don’t ride ON a Mustang. You ride IN one. You become a part of the car and can feel the road, the responsiveness of the steering and the handling. Much like both the Horse and the WW2 Fighter plane that inspired this vehicle- today’s Mustang represents a choice to go where you want, when you want and get there with a smile on your face- as it’s not the destination that matters, but the journey. These cars are tough, rugged and yet comfortable and easy to control. In many ways, the current generation is better than any which came before it as they represent truly world class performance while still being attainable for so many of us who can’t afford to summer in Monaco.



As a kid, I’d often thought what the Mustang would become at its 100th Anniversary. I never imagined a V8 would be powering it. I thought about fusion power, or jet engines as I’d thought they would be able to fly. The one constant though, no matter the power, performance and technology- was the formula. The styling I mentioned plus the attainable performance at a price many of us could afford. I know Mustang is changing, with the Mach-e and perhaps other iterations to follow. Some may see this as blasphemous. Some may turn away and say the Mustang is dead. That’s happened before, but almost 60 years later Mustangs are still rolling off the assembly line. As long as they follow the formula, as long as they understand what truly makes Mustang so exceptional, I think it will be okay.

 

[IceGamer]

I thought I’d write a response to this article. Here it goes.

Mustang is Definitely a Format- Not a Vibe





Times are changing, technology marches on and moves ahead into the future. Admirers of the Ford Mustang need to move forward as well, just not in the way some out there think. Mustang is a lifestyle, it’s a passion, and there’s also a very real formula for its success for almost 60 years.



First the styling, the long hood and short deck, the bucket seats, the interior as well as exterior styling with both European and American design cues. The V8 power drawing the performance crowd while smaller displacement engines delight those who seek style and lower insurance premiums over raw power. These cars have evolved over the years with the current generation providing V8’s and lesser engines that are in many cases more powerful than the engines from the past. They truly give us a glimpse into a world of possibilities for fun and excitement that we couldn’t enjoy in any other car.



As to lifestyle, these cars represent a freedom of expression and sense of adventure. You don’t ride ON a Mustang. You ride IN one. You become a part of the car and can feel the road, the responsiveness of the steering and the handling. Much like both the Horse and the WW2 Fighter plane that inspired this vehicle- today’s Mustang represents a choice to go where you want, when you want and get there with a smile on your face- as it’s not the destination that matters, but the journey. These cars are tough, rugged and yet comfortable and easy to control. In many ways, the current generation is better than any which came before it as they represent truly world class performance while still being attainable for so many of us who can’t afford to summer in Monaco.



As a kid, I’d often thought what the Mustang would become at its 100th Anniversary. I never imagined a V8 would be powering it. I thought about fusion power, or jet engines as I’d thought they would be able to fly. The one constant though, no matter the power, performance and technology- was the formula. The styling I mentioned plus the attainable performance at a price many of us could afford. I know Mustang is changing, with the Mach-e and perhaps other iterations to follow. Some may see this as blasphemous. Some may turn away and say the Mustang is dead. That’s happened before, but almost 60 years later Mustangs are still rolling off the assembly line. As long as they follow the formula, as long as they understand what truly makes Mustang so exceptional, I think it will be okay.

A few thoughts on that:
Bucket seats in a Mustang? Maybe optional but certainly not an iconic characteristic...

"They truly give us a glimpse into a world of possibilities for fun and excitement that we couldn’t enjoy in any other car. ... they represent truly world class performance while still being attainable..."
--> Simply no. A Mustang is a cheap GT car that offers lot of the stuff that was stated above, freedome, adventure and such but certainly not world class performance while still being attainable.

A Mustang is a platform that can be molded into everything you want. Dragstar, race car, GT, convertible cruiser... A Mustang has a bit of everything and offers solid or good performance compared to it's price, at least in the states.
Furthermore, it does not offer world class performance and the exitement that could not be enjoyed in any other car. There are better cars that offer more exiting v8s and there are better cars that offer a superior driving experience. However, if you're on a budget a Mustang is the go to car and there is nothing wrong with filling that hole.

 

[Stam616]

A few thoughts on that:
Bucket seats in a Mustang? Maybe optional but certainly not an iconic characteristic...

"They truly give us a glimpse into a world of possibilities for fun and excitement that we couldn’t enjoy in any other car. ... they represent truly world class performance while still being attainable..."
--> Simply no. A Mustang is a cheap GT car that offers lot of the stuff that was stated above, freedome, adventure and such but certainly not world class performance while still being attainable.

A Mustang is a platform that can be molded into everything you want. Dragstar, race car, GT, convertible cruiser... A Mustang has a bit of everything and offers solid or good performance compared to it's price, at least in the states.
Furthermore, it does not offer world class performance and the exitement that could not be enjoyed in any other car. There are better cars that offer more exiting v8s and there are better cars that offer a superior driving experience. However, if you're on a budget a Mustang is the go to car and there is nothing wrong with filling that hole.

I beg to differ. The S550 of today even in GT Guise is more than a match for many sports/GT cars that cost far more, Add a few mods or even a tune and yes- Mustangs can run with the best. Especially with the Independent rear suspension. Of course there are better cars, but not at a price that’s attainable or easily more aspirational for the regular folks. As to bucket seats. I have yet to see a bench seat in a Mustang. They’ve always had buckets up front. Single seat for driver and one for front passenger. They seat 5 not 6.

I’m also not saying they are the best cars in the world. Simply that they do offer wold class performance at an attainable price. Spec out a new S550 and compare with the car show we drooled over as kids. Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche from the 80’s-90’s. Then look at what this car can do. Sorry to say but it beats most if not all of them. Many cars of today that cost more are also beat today by them and the S650 will be no different. That’s all I’m saying.

 

[IPOGT]

I enjoyed that too. That is what people just don't see, and if they do, they don't show it much. How many people were complaining when the mustang got IRS? Exactly.

Ezra Dyer: Mustang Is a Vibe
Consider Ford's 5.0 coupe an inspiration rather than a template.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41209763/ford-mustang-is-a-vibe/

I enjoyed that read...

If I were an automotive journalist I would be for ever grateful my name did not appear as the author in the title of that article.

 

[Hack]

They did the opposite, they opened the door to the idea of making a compelling sub-brand. One could argue backing yourself into a corner would be only making one model in a declining segment.

The Mach E isn't in the same segment as the Mustang. I do agree the Mustang's segment is declining. The Mach E's segment is forcibly being expanded, so that's relatively safe territory. And 4 door SUVs are selling well currently. It's not like the two cars share any of the same parts, so calling the Mach E a Mustang does nothing to improve profits. It's just a marketing/sales tactic that is pretty gross.

Certainly it could be argued. But the Mustang has been around 50 years and with the EV push, it should have no issues in it's exact segment as a full EV vehicle.

I would disagree with this. 2 door sporty cars have issues in today's market, so the Mustang could well have issues if Ford turns it into an EV. An SUV is a better choice for a new EV model. It's what all of today's "secretaries" want to buy.

The thing is, those are all assumptions.

As a business, the Mach-E’s been a runaway hit. The only “mistake” would be if it were a sales flop. Clearly the numbers state otherwise.

The only people worried about dilution are purists and traditionalists.

The Mach E is doing ok. 28,000 sales this year through September. That's more than the declining real Mustang sold.

The Maverick is a better example of an actual runaway hit. Roughly double the sales of the Mach E this year and the number is limited mostly by Ford's ability to produce the car.

If Ford was just slapping the mustang name on anything, I'd agree with you. But it's not like they're planning to make a mustang truck or van. So far, we have a badass iconic muscle car, and a sexy, good performing hot hatch, that's a pretty solid performance line-up. As long as future mustang branded vehicles look good, and are good performing vehicles in their class, I'm ok with using the mustang name.

Hot hatch? That's hilarious.

Would you say that the car has been a sales success for Ford, yes or no

Boom. Done

I'd say it's doing ok not great. See above to read about actual sales success of Maverick. Ford Escape sold about 74K units so far this year. Bronco Sport about 58K. Bronco about 55K. So relative to other similar SUV models that are gas or hybrid, the Mach E is not looking that good.

I don't think that necessarily reflects anything negative about the vehicle relative to other EVs. I just think most people aren't ready to buy an EV yet. And EVs aren't as good as gas powered vehicles yet.

A few thoughts on that:
Bucket seats in a Mustang? Maybe optional but certainly not an iconic characteristic...

"They truly give us a glimpse into a world of possibilities for fun and excitement that we couldn’t enjoy in any other car. ... they represent truly world class performance while still being attainable..."
--> Simply no. A Mustang is a cheap GT car that offers lot of the stuff that was stated above, freedome, adventure and such but certainly not world class performance while still being attainable.

A Mustang is a platform that can be molded into everything you want. Dragstar, race car, GT, convertible cruiser... A Mustang has a bit of everything and offers solid or good performance compared to it's price, at least in the states.
Furthermore, it does not offer world class performance and the exitement that could not be enjoyed in any other car. There are better cars that offer more exiting v8s and there are better cars that offer a superior driving experience. However, if you're on a budget a Mustang is the go to car and there is nothing wrong with filling that hole.

It's pretty rare to find a bench seat in a Mustang. I think it was an option in 64-66, but I don't believe the Mustang has been available with anything other than bucket seats since then. Unless you are talking about the rear seat, but nobody really puts a bucket seat in the rear of a car.

I agree with most everything else in your post. I'm not sure Mustang is really a budget choice anymore, but I guess there are definitely a lot more expensive options. But the Mustang price tag has really ballooned lately.

 

[Marty1000]

Wow...the absolute hatred on this thread...
Sorry, but I think Ezra hit the nail on the head. Yes, people like "their" Mustang, but lets face it, everyone has their era.
I know people who love fox bodied Mustangs. Some love the 67 mustang shape. Others the G5 body style.

I also know people who absolutely hate them. Their love is the G6 or the G7 mustangs. I hear words like modern, sophisticated, powerful, athletic, and planted when talking about the new generations These same people mention blocky, anemic, floaty, and primitive. when they talk about G5 and prior.

The fact is, we all have out favorites, but just because we love our "insert x model here" doesn't mean we should close off our eyes and ears and throw temper tantrums because a change is made. Yeah, if they made another probe and intended to call it a mustang, go ahead, but this isn't that situation. It's a refinement of what they have and where they are going.

Maybe instead of throwing a fit about something we can't change (display), maybe we can ask Ford to make it useful beyond what they think we should see.

For instance, allow us to customize the displays. so for example, if you are running a track, you are more concerned about rpm and staying in the power band than overall speed. Allow us to stuff the speedo in a corner and make the tach fairly large and easy to read at a glance. Some folks may want to monitor their temperatures. So allow us to line up trans, diff, oil, coolant, etc all in a row. Maybe it's an old style needle gauge, or maybe is a color coded circle with a number in it. Dark blue is very cold, dark to light green is within normal operating temperatures, yellow indicates it's getting a little warm, but still okay, orange indicates you are having an issue while red and dark red indicate serious issues/overheating Allow someone who has certain types of colorblindness to modify the display so that it doesn't impact them, etc.
maybe even allow for custom displays...so if say @DRB comes up with a display that can highlight individual cylinder temps easily and others want to use it, he can share that display.

The displays are not going to go anywhere...so let's try and get Ford to let us use them to the full advantage they can offer.

BTW- I think the customizable dash is the great move on the S650. After driving my 2016-V6 home one night with high beams on, I suddenly noticed that at the speed I was going the High-Beam-Blue warning lite in the dash was covered by the needle of the speedometer. At that point I said to myself - why can that dash light could not have been moved on bottom section of the speedometer. Was this an engineering design goof that passed into production? Now with software and configurable dash I hope we can have the warning lights where we like to have them.

 

[OppoLock]

The Mach E isn't in the same segment as the Mustang. I do agree the Mustang's segment is declining. The Mach E's segment is forcibly being expanded, so that's relatively safe territory. And 4 door SUVs are selling well currently. It's not like the two cars share any of the same parts, so calling the Mach E a Mustang does nothing to improve profits. It's just a marketing/sales tactic that is pretty gross.



I would disagree with this. 2 door sporty cars have issues in today's market, so the Mustang could well have issues if Ford turns it into an EV. An SUV is a better choice for a new EV model. It's what all of today's "secretaries" want to buy.



The Mach E is doing ok. 28,000 sales this year through September. That's more than the declining real Mustang sold.

The Maverick is a better example of an actual runaway hit. Roughly double the sales of the Mach E this year and the number is limited mostly by Ford's ability to produce the car.



Hot hatch? That's hilarious.



I'd say it's doing ok not great. See above to read about actual sales success of Maverick. Ford Escape sold about 74K units so far this year. Bronco Sport about 58K. Bronco about 55K. So relative to other similar SUV models that are gas or hybrid, the Mach E is not looking that good.

I don't think that necessarily reflects anything negative about the vehicle relative to other EVs. I just think most people aren't ready to buy an EV yet. And EVs aren't as good as gas powered vehicles yet.



It's pretty rare to find a bench seat in a Mustang. I think it was an option in 64-66, but I don't believe the Mustang has been available with anything other than bucket seats since then. Unless you are talking about the rear seat, but nobody really puts a bucket seat in the rear of a car.

I agree with most everything else in your post. I'm not sure Mustang is really a budget choice anymore, but I guess there are definitely a lot more expensive options. But the Mustang price tag has really ballooned lately.

Sounds like it’s doing just about as good as can be, give this a full read from a week ago: https://fordauthority.com/2022/10/ford-mustang-mach-e-took-10-days-to-turn-in-september/

 

[Hack]

Sounds like it’s doing just about as good as can be, give this a full read from a week ago: https://fordauthority.com/2022/10/ford-mustang-mach-e-took-10-days-to-turn-in-september/

Yes, that's really good. Only the two Teslas in front of it, and Tesla is by far the leader in EVs.

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