4th Gen Coyote (5.0L Ti-VCT) S650 V8 Engine Technical Info / Specs

[Gogoggansgo]

It's interesting these newer engines will have lower peak torque than gen 3 as well. Wonder if they have harder efficiency limits to meet now. At least the steel oil pan is coming back lmao

Emissions regulations went through some major changes for the 22-23 MY for all cars and for bikes it’s euro 5. There is a good 15-20 lost with these newer standards why did you think Chevy had to increase the fuel system pressure and redo the cats for. Also the mustang gt and mach 1 both lost 10hp for 2 model years because of the new carbon traps in the intake

so yeah if it wasn’t for the newer emissions, I’d say a 500hp mustang gt would of been possible. And I’ve been saying it for a few years ford is getting really close to the end of the life of the coyote engines. They originally were planned to be in production for 10 years and the lifetime end goal was to try to get to 500hp. Ford will have to either hybrid them or come out with a new platform. Emission regulations are only getting worse

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[matrix243]

7,250 RPM? How often are people at 7,000+ RPM? That's always been my beef with the 5.0. The TOP end power is great, but from 1,000 RPM to 4,000 RPM where people normally drive it's nothing special. In fact, at those engine speeds I can't even tell it's different from the old 4.6 3V, or a 5.7L Hemi, or any other engine that's been on the market for decades.

This is also the reason that the A10 is the ONLY trans to go with. The MT82 HATES high RPM shifting and that makes the top end power of the 5.0 useless.

Maybe not right to redline but its a huge road course lap time benefit just like in the gt350 holding a gear with less shifts and right in peak power range.

 

[Dena]

Emissions regulations went through some major changes for the 22-23 MY for all cars and for bikes it’s euro 5. There is a good 15-20 lost with these newer standards why did you think Chevy had to increase the fuel system pressure and redo the cats for. Also the mustang gt and mach 1 both lost 10hp for 2 model years because of the new carbon traps in the intake

so yeah if it wasn’t for the newer emissions, I’d say a 500hp mustang gt would of been possible. And I’ve been saying it for a few years ford is getting really close to the end of the life of the coyote engines. They originally were planned to be in production for 10 years and the lifetime end goal was to try to get to 500hp. Ford will have to either hybrid them or come out with a new platform. Emission regulations are only getting worse

Ford was cutting back on the horse power because they couldn't meet emission standards. It appears the problem is they weren't getting enough air making the mixture a bit rich. I think that's why they went to two throttle bodies as a solution to the fuel rich problem. They probably use one at lower output levels and open both for higher output levels. That change may buy them quite a bit of time.
As for the lower output for the GT, the GT doesn't have forged connecting rods and may not be able to handle the higher output for an extended period of time. The Dark Horse is a street legal race car where the GT is a fun street car.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Ford was cutting back on the horse power because they couldn't meet emission standards. It appears the problem is they weren't getting enough air making the mixture a bit rich. I think that's why they went to two throttle bodies as a solution to the fuel rich problem. They probably use one at lower output levels and open both for higher output levels. That change may buy them quite a bit of time.
As for the lower output for the GT, the GT doesn't have forged connecting rods and may not be able to handle the higher output for an extended period of time. The Dark Horse is a street legal race car where the GT is a fun street car.

You must be new around here
1) the mustang gt has had forged rods since 2015 and that remains the same with the s650 but on the dark horse they’re a better gt500 rods
2) they’re not running these engines rich at all they’re lean to the high heavens, also what does two throttle have to do with AFR in what way does that contribute? To emissions. The answer is none, more than likely they realized they couldn’t hit the HP targets without doing some major modifications and came up with duel throttle bodies as the solution

 

[goodlettjr]

They probably use one at lower output levels and open both for higher output levels.

That is def not what they are doing. From an engineering solution and balance of air intake they are using both all the time. This isn't like a 4 barrel carb. This is modern emissions with modern electronics.

 

[Smaaron]

That is def not what they are doing. From an engineering solution and balance of air intake they are using both all the time. This isn't like a 4 barrel carb. This is modern emissions with modern electronics.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Nope reading is hard

They do that to keep manifold pressure high, when you do this you flatten out the torque curve. This is why a lot of modern day turbo engines won’t let you go WOT in the middle of the rpm range they wanna make it as flat as possible. All ford is doing is the same but using one of the throttle bodies to do it. Yall read way way too far into this crap and over think it lmfao

 

[goodlettjr]

@Dena and @Smaaron I stand corrected. This is sounds like the same principle as a variable vane turbo. I guess some people will change only one air filter while some will have to change two.

 

[Smaaron]

Nope reading is hard

They do that to keep manifold pressure high, when you do this you flatten out the torque curve. This is why a lot of modern day turbo engines won’t let you go WOT in the middle of the rpm range they wanna make it as flat as possible. All ford is doing is the same but using one of the throttle bodies to do it. Yall read way way too far into this crap and over think it lmfao

Gen 4 coyote intake manifold has charge motion control valves to boost torque at low throttle settings, which were also in the earlier motors with a single throttle body.

 

[Interstellar]

Higher AFR = lower emmisions. More air in = less bad out (assuming same amount of fuel).
Thank you for visiting my engineering TED talk

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Gen 4 coyote intake manifold has charge motion control valves to boost torque at low throttle settings, which were also in the earlier motors with a single throttle body.

Charge motion plates are only good at low rpm’s and don’t have the ability to vary themselves like a traditional throttle body. Ford is using these twin throttle bodies in a way that allows them to have there cake and eat it too. The LT6 in the z06 has a similar idea with the 3 little throttle bodies in the manifold. Charge motion plates also become a restriction after a certain rpm range “yes i know these guys told flat” but you can’t use them to promote high manifold pressure, they only act as restriction to increase velocity into the intake track on the cylinder head


TLDR charge motion plates and these twin throttle bodies don’t do the same job and work very differently. You really can’t compare the two, but it’ll be interesting to see how tuning will progress

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Higher AFR = lower emmisions. More air in = less bad out (assuming same amount of fuel).
Thank you for visiting my engineering TED talk

No doesn’t work like that running a lean AFR creates NOX and high cylinder temps, which results in bad emissions. This is why you’re seeing egrs on gas turbo engines now. NOX emissions for gas engines have gotten considerably stricter. You can only get so much out of air and a fuel mixture.

 

[Interstellar]

Charge motion plates are only good at low rpm’s and don’t have the ability to vary themselves like a traditional throttle body. Ford is using these twin throttle bodies in a way that allows them to have there cake and eat it too. The LT6 in the z06 has a similar idea with the 3 little throttle bodies in the manifold. Charge motion plates also become a restriction after a certain rpm range “yes i know these guys told flat” but you can’t use them to promote high manifold pressure, they only act as restriction to increase velocity into the intake track on the cylinder head


TLDR charge motion plates and these twin throttle bodies don’t do the same job and work very differently. You really can’t compare the two, but it’ll be interesting to see how tuning will progress

Can you explain what a charge motion plate is? Never heard of it

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Can you explain what a charge motion plate is? Never heard of it

Originally they were basically tiny throttle bodies that oems would throw inside the intake close to the cylinder track. The 4.6 3 valves for reference use them, but even with them open it was a major intake restriction. It was a really common mod back then to delete them and gain 10whp, although you’d lose out of a few 4 pounds of torque down low. Big deal on the 4.6, with the coyotes ford designed these really cool plastic ones, that when off “folded” they’re flat and have no resistance when not in use.

 

[Interstellar]

Originally they were basically tiny throttle bodies that oems would throw inside the intake close to the cylinder track. The 4.6 3 valves for reference use them, but even with them open it was a major intake restriction. It was a really common mod back then to delete them and gain 10whp, although you’d lose out of a few 4 pounds of torque down low. Big deal on the 4.6, with the coyotes ford designed these really cool plastic ones, that when off “folded” they’re flat and have no resistance when not in use.

So at low RPMs they increased turbulence to increase air flow?

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